So I searched and found out it was mcmoney that made them at one point. I emailed him and didn't get a response, so I was wondering if anyone knows if he is still making them. Also, are there any other options? I won't be running coilovers, so the sentra plates won't work.
I'm using mcmoney's camber plates and, to be honest, you can get about the same amount of camber using the camber bolts or slotting your struts. When you move the top of the strut it durasticaly effects toe so that you can't get more than about -2.5 and still have decent toe settings. I'd suggest just picking up a set of camber bolts online and tiping the guy at the alignment shop $10 if they don't charge you more than the standard. I wouldn't go past -1.5 if you do much street driving and leave the toe close to zero becuase it will toe out when you step on the brakes to enter the corner.
If you are still looking to spend ~$200 on parts save up for some struts and springs since those will make the biggest handling difference on your car. Keep an eye out in the classifieds for a used set of pro-kit's for about $100 and then purcahse a set of AGX's on ebay for like $375.
Not to get off topic, but i dont understand what you mean by slotting your struts? I havent heard of it before..
Zach wrote:I'm using mcmoney's camber plates and, to be honest, you can get about the same amount of camber using the camber bolts or slotting your struts. When you move the top of the strut it durasticaly effects toe so that you can't get more than about -2.5 and still have decent toe settings. I'd suggest just picking up a set of camber bolts online and tiping the guy at the alignment shop $10 if they don't charge you more than the standard. I wouldn't go past -1.5 if you do much street driving and leave the toe close to zero becuase it will toe out when you step on the brakes to enter the corner.
If you are still looking to spend ~$200 on parts save up for some struts and springs since those will make the biggest handling difference on your car. Keep an eye out in the classifieds for a used set of pro-kit's for about $100 and then purcahse a set of AGX's on ebay for like $375.
Thanks Zach, I will probably just slot the struts (dremel work for that?). If I get a pyrometer, I will probably become good friends with the alignement guy until I am happy with my alignment, lol.
El fuego (the Dangerous one) wrote:Not to get off topic, but i dont understand what you mean by slotting your struts? I havent heard of it before..
widens the hole for the bolts at the bottom
A dremel works fine. You could also use an end mill (4 flutes) if you have access to one. Remember to slot the bottom hole towards the engine bay. You may be able to talk the alignment shop in to slotting it for you though.
the bottom slot towards the engine bay? wouldn't that be positive camber because the bottom bolt on the knuckle would be farther in from the top bolt making the wheels look like this \ / ? at least thats how i see it. Do you have a picture of what you did?
Yeah, you are right. I don't know how I made that mistake. It's been about 2 years since I've fooled with the slotted struts.
ok so slot away from engine. Got it
if at all possible, get camber bolts....
slotting struts takes away from material of a STRUCTURAL DESIGN...
the bolts are hardened past normal levels
weakening a design, even if it is a low amount of material removal, is still a risk, and with the price of the bolts being so low, no point in risking it.
camber plates would be ideal as you dont have to get an alignment after changes at the track.... anytime you loosen the bolts, and move stuff, you will need in the very least an alignment check.
there was an article in grass roots motorsports about this about a year ago.
Sounds like a good start. Art is over exaggerating on the structural integrity bit of the strut, IMO.
About slotting vs camber bolts -
Slotting the struts is mentioned in the service manual as a way to achive proper alignment if the car is out of spec. There is a specific amount of material printed as the maximum amount you can remove. I do not think that camber bolts are mentioned and if somone were to protest your car (in a solo event) and you have camber bolts I believe you would lose the protest depending on what class your car was in.
That would be the only reason I can think of for slotting the struts vs just using camber bolts.
If you are not going to be winning your class in a divisonal or national level solo event then I would not worry about it and just get the camber bolts.
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well my struts and strut mounts are gone. don't really feel safe driving it, so i bought that camber kit, agx's and h&r's. Might as well upgrade while i hafta replace stuff.
tommy boy - OSU fan?
Zach wrote:Sounds like a good start. Art is over exaggerating on the structural integrity bit of the strut, IMO.
def not overexaggerating.... just making a statement. taking material away weakens any part. when there is a cheap and viable option of doing it correctly, why not just do it correctly?
there really should be NO need to slot struts. period. most all struts made, especially past 1995 have enough play for adjustment.
hence the reason we all install NEW struts and then go get an alignment. camber, as well as toe can be off, but stock suspension as it is has room for adjustment.
looking in the 2 volume gm shop manual, it says nothing about slotting struts in here.
Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:Zach wrote:Sounds like a good start. Art is over exaggerating on the structural integrity bit of the strut, IMO.
def not overexaggerating.... just making a statement. taking material away weakens any part. when there is a cheap and viable option of doing it correctly, why not just do it correctly?
there really should be NO need to slot struts. period. most all struts made, especially past 1995 have enough play for adjustment.
hence the reason we all install NEW struts and then go get an alignment. camber, as well as toe can be off, but stock suspension as it is has room for adjustment.
looking in the 2 volume gm shop manual, it says nothing about slotting struts in here.
ACtually, it does, I just saw it the other day.... try page 3C-3 in book one.... "Strut Modification"
Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:
most all struts made, especially past 1995 have enough play for adjustment.
but stock suspension as it is has room for adjustment.
actually art. Stock suspension only has +/- 0.5 degrees of camber adjustment.
Machzel08 wrote:Funky Bottoms (Event) wrote:
most all struts made, especially past 1995 have enough play for adjustment.
but stock suspension as it is has room for adjustment.
actually art. Stock suspension only has +/- 0.5 degrees of camber adjustment.
yup, i know this, but as i already stated....
Quote:
stock suspension as it is has room for adjustment
negative .5 degrees is still camber adjustment.
at most one might run 2-3 degrees on a full out track car, 0.5-1.5 on a daily driver depending on tire choice (tires like neogens and invo's have less negative camber wear) and or level of hard/agressive driving. really no need to run past 1 degree camber on a street car.
but thats why i stated that struts ALREADY come with play for adjustment. else we wouldnt need alignments on suspension changes.
AutoFreak57 97redgt wrote:ACtually, it does, I just saw it the other day.... try page 3C-3 in book one.... "Strut Modification"
not in the GM shop manual that GM uses, as in from the factory made by helm.
none of the pages i have are denoted with letters alongside of numbers. page 3-3 is in suspension. but theres no 3C-3
heres a scan of the page.
the page after that is 3-4 and so on...
also to note, page 3-31 states that if specs are THAT far out of alignment, which would bring anyone the NEED not the want to slot struts, parts should be REPLACED, which page 3-31 is about replacing struts, how and when to do so.....
more or likely if you had a need to slot a strut simply to get things to spec, chances are your car bit a brick wall or you had a serious acident which prob messed up more than alignment on the car. subframe, steering knuckles, or tie rods are bent as well and would need replacement.
haynes and chiltons manuals are ok, the shop manuals are far better.
hopefully no one gets offended. sure people have done and do this on this and that car. its a given. but as always in life there are Bad-Good and Better way to do anything. i'm simply posting the safest and cost effective way i know of myself to do stuff, without having anyone make an "oooops".
is there a difference between a shop manual and a service manual? Cuz I have the GM service manual for a 1997 J-body and it definitely has letters and numbers.
AutoFreak57 (97redgt) wrote:is there a difference between a shop manual and a service manual? Cuz I have the GM service manual for a 1997 J-body and it definitely has letters and numbers.
dont think so....
mine says service manual as well, shop manual is more the "slang term"....
suspension is the same between 95-05, but i have the 99 and an 01 manuals... neither of them mention slotting anything.... prob just more updated stuff.
cause i know slotting of struts gm doesnt do anymore (maybe a few smaller shops do it if you request it, but warranty of the product is gone.... i asked them about that when i got my baer brakes installed, and they told me that when parts are far off, they are replaced, not modified, especially suspension parts. metal weakening/rust prevention are the main reasons for fatigue. made sense, so i just waited.
i almost went with the camber bolts 3 years ago, but held off as sooo many companies claimed they were "comming out with this and that"...
it wasnt until 04 i believe when teske, or lacey did the sentra conversion, and then last year i believe slyvan made j-specific camber plates... i run the teins now
well, I'm going with the camber bolts and rear shims that I posted earlier. Just got them in, they look nice.
And on the service manual thing, that musta been what it was. They changed it sometime between 97 and 99.
AutoFreak57 (97redgt) wrote:well, I'm going with the camber bolts and rear shims that I posted earlier. Just got them in, they look nice.
And on the service manual thing, that musta been what it was. They changed it sometime between 97 and 99.
I slotted mine and used shims in the rear on mine. the rear shims in the rear are a pain in the a$$.
see ya!
novaracer wrote:AutoFreak57 (97redgt) wrote:well, I'm going with the camber bolts and rear shims that I posted earlier. Just got them in, they look nice.
And on the service manual thing, that musta been what it was. They changed it sometime between 97 and 99.
I slotted mine and used shims in the rear on mine. the rear shims in the rear are a pain in the a$$.
I looked at the template for mine and it looks like it wants me to cut all the way through the very top of it. Is that what you had to do? also what did you use to cut it? a dremel?
AutoFreak57 (97redgt) wrote:well, I'm going with the camber bolts and rear shims that I posted earlier. Just got them in, they look nice.
And on the service manual thing, that musta been what it was. They changed it sometime between 97 and 99.
thats prob your best bet. camber kits are like 10-20$ and requires no cutting, so no real room for error. especially if you plan to put any stress on the said parts.
and true, the service manuals are always upgrades to change with the times and parts. i got the newest one mainly because of the injector upgrades and suspension upgrades.
where can i get a camber kit??? i just got my car aligned after lowering it on the gravana setup today and they said they can't do anything with my camber and i should get a kit
personally i know nothing about it, event can you steer me in the right direction???
