Hi I have a few questions that i couldnt find an answers to.

1. If i use the aluminum control arms from the grand am and dont shorten them it will stick out an extra 1/2". Will this affect the axles or can i just leave them sticking out the extra 1/2"? if so does anyone know where i can get tubular control arms from?

2. Can i use the nbody discs on them with the camaro with the existing jbody struts without modification? (I already have a set of kyb agx struts and eibach prokit thats already installed and i dont want to change it>

3. For the rear suspension I am guessing that an IRS is fairly hard to install and I am wondering if it is worth it? I really want to switch from drum to disc in the rear and if its just as much work i might as well install the IRS?


Whats up people?

1: It will stick out .5", It will affect the axles however by the time you do the N outer your already .5" longer on the axle anyway so it all matches up well. Tubular CAs were available for some time from RKSport but they kept snapping so they stopped manufacturing them and no one has picked up where they left off so no tubeular CAs for our J's.

2: yes, but you will need the N body upright/hub and wheel bearing

3: The neon rear disc brake swap is hardly as difficult as the IRS swap but even that isn't too hard from what I hear. Seems to be straight forward. The neon rear isn't any harder than doing a brake job. Just get the brackets and get em machined.

1. What ^ he said.
2. Read my How To again.
3. The Neon rear is almost as hard as the N IRS, but quite a bit cheaper. I love my IRS setup, it's up to you whether it's worth it.

I'm with CTS ... I love my IRS ... and it's not that hard to do .. but will be more expensive




Jay

I am considering selling my rear 12" disc brake setup, only used on a trailer queen. I am thinking of changing to the g/a irs.

Bottom line for #3...if you want to keep your KYB/Eibach setup in the rear, IRS is not for you



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

You can still run KYB AGXs on Eibachs, you just need the rear kit for a GAM.

you guys with IRS, do you have any alignment issues? how long did the swap take? thanks

Those of us with Tein SS's can't bring themselves to the thought of splitting them up
No IRS for me until my Teins are toast.

No alignment issues, the rear has a slightly wider stance than stock (1" IIRC). I really need to roll the fenders. With my 225 wheels if I hit a bump hard enough they'll rub the fender. No damage yet, but it worries me a bit.

Same here CTS ... the only alignment issue I have is camber ... I used the J springs (yes they can be made to work) and it lowered my car another 1/2-3/4" so I have some negative camber on my rear .. but it looks HAWT !




Jay

C.T.S wrote:You can still run KYB AGXs on Eibachs, you just need the rear kit for a GAM.

But that wouldn't be his KYB/Eibach...that would be new stuff



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

Wild Fire (RevGT) wrote:Same here CTS ... the only alignment issue I have is camber ... I used the J springs (yes they can be made to work) and it lowered my car another 1/2-3/4" so I have some negative camber on my rear .. but it looks HAWT !

A set of $5 12mm camber bolts fixed that right quick (note: that's not the same size as the front, front are 14mm).

ok well that answers a lot of my questions. so im thinking rear irs is out for now since i dont want new springs and struts. this brings me back to the neon discs or a rear disc brake setup that will fit in the stock 16" rims. if the fronts are going to stick out and extra inch (half on each side) I would like to put some kind of spacer in that will space it an extra inch (half on each side). is that possible? do the neon discs have the same bolt pattern as the camaro discs?


Whats up people?

you can keep your springs ... but the struts have to go ... they're a completely different design. and CTS thanks for the camber bolt idea




Jay

ok, and with that setup, how would i go about swapping n body spindles to the front so i can have the same bolt patterns lol. would i just pull the wheel hub assembly, and the other would press right back in there? if so, this may be a viable option, but at 120-150 bucks a pop and i think 80-100 for the rear bearings, this is not going to be cheap. how much did you guys spend on your systems? (IRS)

I put about $750 in to mine total, the Koni struts were about $350 of that. See the NFW Front swap for all the info you need to do the front.

I have the Front NFW swap and the rear IRS swap, so 5x115 all around for me. Got the spare out of a Grand Prix so I have a spare too.

Bearings from one suspension doe not fit any of the other suspensions.

so how can i get the rear to have the 5X115 bolt pattern and keep my agx struts so i dont have to go buy new ones again?


Whats up people?

C.T.S wrote:
3. The Neon rear is almost as hard as the N IRS, but quite a bit cheaper. I love my IRS setup, it's up to you whether it's worth it.

I know the N IRS swap isn't too hard but when compared to a simple brake job with light handtools(neon swap)? I know I'm not one to talk about the ease since I've never done it however it seems like it would take more than one guy to do it, more than light hand tools, and more complexity than a brake job.
This comparison made with outsourcing the technical labor of which most wont try themselves for either swap, machining(neon swap) and welding(N IRS swap).

Ok so I think i have my setup figured out now. Please offer suggestions or correct any errors in my information.

Up front I am going to go with the grand am aluminum control arms the n-body rotors and the camaro calipers. (my existing springs and struts will bolt right up. Correct?)

In the rear I am going to go with half inch wheel spacers from eibach along with the neon disc swap (again my existing springs and struts will bolt up. Correct?)

For rims i want to go with these. They have both the 5x115 and the 5x100 pattern so they should slip right on correct?

For the rims do i need hubcentric rings?


Whats up people?

1. yes, I have stock struts and eibach sportlines in the front.

2. yes, your not even touching the suspension.

3. yes, AS LONG AS THE HUB IS LARGE ENOUGH TO CLEAR THE N-BODY HUB. My first set of rims did not.

4. yes, you need to find out the size of the hub hole on the rim, and then get N-body spacers in the front, neon (you use a neon bearing right?) in the rear.




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Joshua Dearman wrote:

C.T.S wrote:
3. The Neon rear is almost as hard as the N IRS, but quite a bit cheaper. I love my IRS setup, it's up to you whether it's worth it.

I know the N IRS swap isn't too hard but when compared to a simple brake job with light hand tools(neon swap)? I know I'm not one to talk about the ease since I've never done it however it seems like it would take more than one guy to do it, more than light hand tools, and more complexity than a brake job.
This comparison made with outsourcing the technical labor of which most wont try themselves for either swap, machining(neon swap) and welding(N IRS swap).

I appreciate that you're opinion is heavily influenced by not knowing the process, you should read my IRS How-To. There's no welding. I did it completely by myself, no help what-so-ever (help is recommended). Only non-hand tools were an impact wrench and a drill with a 1/2" bit. I could do it again in 5 hours given all the parts are collected.

Almost nobody is going to have a 3 axis mill to modify the neon brackets, so you'll have to outsource that. You have to remove quite a bit to get the car ready, and requires some oddball tools that the IRS swap doesn't. Given, the neon swap can be done in half the time the IRS swap. But the tools required are comparable.

In Short:
-The IRS swap costs more and takes more time. But in terms of difficulty and tools required they are very comparable. The Benefits are much more than just brakes (stronger struts, slightly wider stance, designed for sway bar, independent suspension).
-The Neon swap costs less and takes less time. The benefits are only rear disk brakes.

^Good to know.....I should walk on over the the how-to again and see cause I could have sworn there was some wleding that needed to be done to realign the swaybar mounts? or something like that. Just a cut, turn and weld type of thing. It is possible to do the machining for the neon swap on a drill press, it has been done before, but I wouldn't put those on my car.

The way McMoney originally did the IRS swap he had quite a bit of welding to make it fit. He copied what GM did for the Sunfire Concept Car that had IRS. Lenko and I did not do that, we did what I wrote up in that HowTo.

Hmm....If tein ever produces SS coilovers for N-bodys that share the same EDFC as the J's do I'll be jumping on the swap. How much further out does it push the stance out? 0.5" each wheel or 0.5" on the axle total(0.25" each wheel)?
Makes me want to then do the NWF front without shortening the GA Alum. CAs and utilize the chamber plate on Teins and just increase the whole stance of my car. N IRS + NFW w/ Al CAs + Tein SS = OMFG - Arguably the best suspension possible for our cars. Without full custom/massive $$$.