Hey guys, just wondering how the pedal on your car feels after putting on the neon rears? I spent just over an hour bleeding the freakin brakes yesterday, and was getting NO air bubbles in the line anymore, and was just wondering if the pedal would just be "softer" compared to the drums.

Thanks in advance,
Alex


There will always be someone faster than you, but thousands slower and dumber than you.

Listening


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Primer Counts as Custom Paint Right?
BTW: This is my Sig.

If you let the MC completely drain out and air got into the lines, and if you have ABS there is still probably air in the ABS proportioning valve. You may have to take it somewhere and have it professionally bled or use the bleeder screws on the ABS proportioning unit to completely get the air out.

I had this issue at first where my pedal was soft as hell, i bled it i don't know how many times with a vacuum bleeder and still same results. Took it to GM dealership and had them bleed it with some high tech thingy and it made the pedal much firmer for about 2 days.

Then where i had painted my calipers, a big leaked developed between the crush washer and the caliper itself. At that point in time i about had it with my car for the year and took the damn thing off the road because i fractured my wrist flaring brake lines and slipping off a wrench and putting my bone into the strut bolt .... However, for those 2 days OMG.... Loved it.

Now i have in my possession an 03 cavalier Non-abs proportioning valve and MC so i don't have to ever screw with that BS again.

not liking what im hearing



Rollin' on question marks since 07.

I couldnt tell the difference with mine with pedal feel.. Now after I installed my Baers, yea I hated the pedal feel because it became soo mushy, but got used to it.. As long as they work lol








~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
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WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ

mushy=not a fan



Rollin' on question marks since 07.

Make sure the calipers are not on the wrong side. To verify this make sure the bleeder is at the top of the caliper. I had the same exact problem with the rear claipers on my Jeep.



FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

I think you guys must have done something wrong. My neon rears are nice and firm with excellent pedal feel. The nice part is they stay consistant unlike the drums that would happen to unadjust themselves on my car.

One question for those of you with soft pedal feel, did you guys retain the factory residual pressure valves? Or did you change them for one that was more appropriate for discs, or remove them completely?

I take it the stock pressure valves would make it Mushy


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Primer Counts as Custom Paint Right?
BTW: This is my Sig.

I ran new brake lines while i was under there since one looked like complete @!#$ and i think when i rip everything out again, i am going to put the pressure valves back in and see what happens then. But i swear for those 2 days of having a really firm pedal, i LOVED THEM.

Baer decala rotors up front with hawk pads and Braided SS lines
Stillen rotors and hawk pads out back with braided SS lines as well.


...mmmmm

The problem with the residual pressure valves is that they hold to much pressure back on the brakes, mine were actually dragging with them on....however if you have a soft pedal I dont think it would matter much...

The ones from the factory are 10# valves, which are standard for drum brakes. You need to get 2# ones which are standard for disc brakes. I personally just took them out after realising that the factory ones were creating drag.

Cody, what you had said earlier makes sence. A lot of people probably dont realise that letting the master run dry can reack havok on the ABS systems. I was very careful to not let the system be open very long at all, and when it was, I made sure I had a "spotter" to make sure the master never ran down. Perhaps that is why people are getting soft pedal with the kit.

I have no problems besides some e-brake adjustment issues with my kit. I have a very high, firm pedal, full ABS functionality, no bias issues, VERY happy with it.

So you removed the Pressure valve completely John?


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Primer Counts as Custom Paint Right?
BTW: This is my Sig.

yes.

According to what I read, the only real purpose they serve is to hold some pressure to the rear brakes incase your rear wheels got to be a higher elevation than the master cyl.

Basically if you are pointed down a steep enough grade to elevate your rear brakes above the master cyl., and you apply your brakes, they will be soft at first if you do not have those pressure valves in.

I dont drive down many cliffs, so out the window they went. I do not have any problems with them at all. I was going to put Wilwood pressure valves in, they are available through Summit Racing pretty cheap, but they required more line modification that I felt like doing that particular afternoon. Our cars use a bubble flair on the brake lines, so you would have to hack off the ends of the lines, and double flare with proper fittings and adapers to make the wilwood ones work.

You should be able to run the blue wilwood pressure valves without complications....but you will have to modify your lines to make them fit. I am sure there is another GM car with rear discs, and the same line size/fitting thread that you can use too....but I dont know what cars you can use.

Bottom line is make sure your master doesnt go dry when you are doing the conversion.

Hmm I am going to remove mine then. I got one of your kits and it didn't have the valves in them anyway. I will have to crawl under there and take a look or just run a whole new line


____________________________________
Primer Counts as Custom Paint Right?
BTW: This is my Sig.

Thats the thing, I was VERY careful not to let the master run dry because I heard of the complications guys were having with it, and mine being an 02, I don't have the bleeder valve on the MC. What a pain in the arse.... I'll bleed the lines again and see if there's just some air I missed or something, BUT I left the RPVs in because I asked about it before and people just said not to worry about it in my other thread.

And as far as the calipers being on the wrong sides--it wasn't possible... They would only seat on one way with the pads in. And I work at partsource (bastard child of canadian tire) and when I did the lookup for my calipers, it even said "Part numbers may be reversed for some applications" so I don't think it matters much in this case.

Anyways, I'll bleed em again tomorrow when I have time.

Also, Cody how much did it cost you to get everything bled with the fancy machine?

Thanks guys!


There will always be someone faster than you, but thousands slower and dumber than you.

My pedal is very firm, and very high. It is wonderful. I left the RPV in and mine don't drag very much, if at all. Plus, they bled very easily. I have no complaints.



Go Go OG Traction!!

my 2nd gen has the pedal in about the same spot as stock with the daytona rears and neon calipers, its somewhat firm however im still using the stock rubber lines up front and in the back

It cost me an hr worth of diagnostic time since I told them I accidentally let the MC completely drain itself and i had Russell speed bleeders on everything so apparently the guy said it too him less than the hr but that they have to charge me at least an hr.


Just a word of advice, don't tell them you modified your braking system. I made the mistake of doing that and the first 3 places I called turned me away and wanted nothing to do with me.

I've never had an issue with bleeding mine or with pedal feel. But I also have no ABS, an N body MC, external proportioning, split front/rear plumbing, and braided lines all around. It gets flushed probably once a year with all the tinkering I do to it. If anything, my pedal was firmer with the rear discs, and that was after I did the H body front swap. ABS/combo valve units always seem to cause bleeding problems, and the only real way to bleed them is with a scan tool.

On the proportioning valves- I really see no reason for them, since the MC is above the calipers (unless you park at some extreme angle facing down, or drive off a cliff like John said). The fewer joints you have in the system, the less chance there is for a leak, and the less work it is to pinpoint any issues you're having.

Well I bled them again yesterday--It may be dumb luck, but whenever I drive the car for a day, all the air seems to work it's way to the back of the calipers, and when I bleed them all the air comes out instantly, lol, where as when I was doing a giant bleeding session before, it just looked like pop fizz. Anyways, after I bled them again the pedal got A LOT firmer, so I'll probably bleed them again when I have another person to pump the brakes.

Basically, Chalk this up to my own stupidity, lol. Thanks guys!


There will always be someone faster than you, but thousands slower and dumber than you.