I have 2 quick questions on these things.
1. I have searched all over tonight and cant seem to find the answer as to why the stock struts "blow out". What blows out? The seal on the shaft? Which would normally blow out oil/gas because the rest of the shock is welded unit and cant blow.
2.Why does the higher spring rate affect the strut. There is less movement on the strut with a higher spring rate isnt there, because the spring is stiffer.Whether you compress the strut 1 inch or 6 inches it has the same dampening effect. As far as I know the strut only acts as a dampener and also holds the wheels straight. Spring height shouldnt affect anything.
Am I right or am I wrong? Please explain.
My car is a 2000 Sunfire SE with motegi mr4 17s that lift it like a truck, and I need to drop it but not too much as I live in WI and we have snow and snow and deep ditches. Im not cheap but dont need to spent 500+ on this thing. Just want to make it look nice and ride sumwhat nice as its a daily driver, so 1.5 inch drop at the most is perfect for me.Thanks ( I really did search all over this great forum so take it easy,its also close to 11:00 and its taking forever to hits the right keys) LOL Thanks again
(BlackFire)
Stock struts are designed to run within a certain range of movement. As you reduce the height, you're putting more stress on them which greatly reduces their lifespan and after a while they just give out. Matching them up with lowering springs makes them operate within another range that they were not designed to handle. That's pretty much it. Keep in mind these are GM economy cars, and they aren't designed for much to being with. That, in addition with them having to deal with stiffer rates, occasional bottoming out, etc kills them fast. There's not always a physical 'blow', its more just the fact that they wear out and are no longer able to properly damper your suspension. Your best bet for performance and price would be KYB AGX struts and Eibach Prokit springs, 1.4" drop all around. However, if you don't want to spend the money to do it right the first time, you really shouldn't be modifying your car. No offense, just how it is.
* * BIG FOR SALE POST * *
Ok thanks for your help I got it now. I think what ill do is get the lowering springs and use them till they "blow" then ill have a reason to get the nice kyb struts. Or put them aside till i get the struts.Just a plan tho.
I have a 79 trans am I just got done restoring so you can see where my money went. I was planning on getting 17x9 all around this summer for the car too. It never ends.haha
Thanks again
(BlackFire)
E W wrote:Ok thanks for your help I got it now. I think what ill do is get the lowering springs and use them till they "blow" then ill have a reason to get the nice kyb struts. Or put them aside till i get the struts.Just a plan tho.
I have a 79 trans am I just got done restoring so you can see where my money went. I was planning on getting 17x9 all around this summer for the car too. It never ends.haha
Thanks again
putting them on until they "blow" is really not all that good of an idea. it's not always just oh my strut blew no big deal. it could become dangerous for you and other people on the road.
also, you'll hate the ride quality dropped on stock struts.
dangerous, unpleasant to drive < saving until you can afford to lower it properly
Ok ill wait till I have the whole setup, thanks.
(BlackFire)
Auto zone has a life time warranty on strut
timka03 cav wrote:Auto zone has a life time warranty on strut
Are you talking about stock stuts? Gabriel are just stock replacments. I need KYB AGX or Koni yellows to drop and autozone doesnt have those.
(BlackFire)
timka03 cav wrote:Auto zone has a life time warranty on strut
yeah, if theyre being used as a factory replacement. that doesnt include lowered applications.
JBO Stickers! Get yours today!
Im in the same boat E W. I just picked up some Eibach pros and been tossing around ideas for struts... thinking about either Koni yellows or Tokico D-Specs... Wouldnt risk doing the work of putting the springs on the stock struts only to blow them out while driving... like blucavvy said, this can be really dangerous and goes to show that going cheap isnt always better...
yea, blown struts are not something i would do. i have pro kits on agx's and the struts supposedly had only 12000 on em when i got em, and the pro's were new, and after 3 days of putting it on, my struts blew out and now i bounce, the car is really squirrly and its just not something i would try to achieve. can't wait till i have money for some new struts.
Dave De Stefano wrote:yea, blown struts are not something i would do. i have pro kits on agx's and the struts supposedly had only 12000 on em when i got em, and the pro's were new, and after 3 days of putting it on, my struts blew out and now i bounce, the car is really squirrly and its just not something i would try to achieve. can't wait till i have money for some new struts.
You blew the agx's? Those struts shouldve held up to them springs 12000 or not.
(BlackFire)
Dave--You sure you don't have the agx's set too soft? I tried it once, I'd bounce all over the ****ing place under certain circumstances.
timka03 cav wrote:They don't know that
2nd time trying to warranty something like that, they'll know something's up. they'll either a) actually realize the warranty is LIMITED lifetime (which means one time replacement, to the original purchaser) or b) refer you to monroe/gabriel/whoever you purchased from, and they will disassemble the product and find it to have been improperly used. basically what i'm trying to say, quit being a scumbag and trying to get free parts. poor people do that.
JBO Stickers! Get yours today!
People at auto zone are Ooooo stupid all they do is look at a computer screen and say yes ,no or I don't know
It's not like there guna take it apart in front of u there just guna throw it in a box and send it back
I did a manual swap and gave them my old auto axles for the cores
The people at the store really don't care
And what are they guna do once its back in the box back in China Mexico or where ever they came from
Oo and if I was rich I wouldn't be driving a cavalier
Times are hard you got to do what you got to do
and KYB doesnt recommend lowering on their struts, called the manufacturer on this. But surely better than stock. And dont be pissed when you lifetime warranty is gone after you swap them once or twice, thats what the other L in LLT is, limited.
i'm lowering my car with stock struts, i have done it with my civic a few years ago and never had any issues
now i would assume after a few years and miles they will blow out but nothing i'm really worried about.
and the ride on my civic wasnt bad at all, its all about what you want to do, people on here might call me stupid, i'm just cheap i want the look not performance
ok have at me
timka03 cav wrote:People at auto zone are Ooooo stupid all they do is look at a computer screen and say yes ,no or I don't know
It's not like there guna take it apart in front of u there just guna throw it in a box and send it back
I did a manual swap and gave them my old auto axles for the cores
The people at the store really don't care
And what are they guna do once its back in the box back in China Mexico or where ever they came from
Oo and if I was rich I wouldn't be driving a cavalier
Times are hard you got to do what you got to do
^ Its not that everyone at autozone is stupid. I have been working in parts sales for a good while and honestly the biggest reason I don't care is because of ignorant dip@!#$s like you. Its absolute bs when somebody comes in twenty times in a month wanting "junk" brake pads replaced because they are too dumb to fix the real problem. Then on top of that I have to deal with them being pissed off and calling me names when I say no. As far as just looking at a computer all day, I am a certified mechanic also but I sell parts as a full time job so I'm not just a stupid parts pusher. Lastly, looking at the way you type I would ease up on calling anybody stupid.
Kooter Kicker wrote:i'm lowering my car with stock struts, i have done it with my civic a few years ago and never had any issues
now i would assume after a few years and miles they will blow out but nothing i'm really worried about.
and the ride on my civic wasnt bad at all, its all about what you want to do, people on here might call me stupid, i'm just cheap i want the look not performance
ok have at me
1. just because you did it to your civic does not mean it is the proper way to do it. j-body struts are notorious for being junk (even with the factory springs. as a matter of fact, to the OP, you might want to check your stockers as depending on mileage they may already be leaking)
2. being cheap is not a good reason to make your car unsafe. if you can't afford to modify a car correctly, you shouldn't be modifying a car at all. i waited upwards of 7 months before installing the lowering springs on my car as I didn't have the money for the proper struts. (which have since been replaced by tein ss coilovers)
3. the ride in your civic wasn't bad compared to what?
Kooter Kicker wrote:i'm lowering my car with stock struts, i have done it with my civic a few years ago and never had any issues
now i would assume after a few years and miles they will blow out but nothing i'm really worried about.
and the ride on my civic wasnt bad at all, its all about what you want to do, people on here might call me stupid, i'm just cheap i want the look not performance
ok have at me
i will call you stupid.
you say that you "assume" after a few years they'll probly fail. what you obviously haven't asked or researched is "could they fail" before a couple of years. and will it turn dangerous on the road when they do? too many @!#$ people thinking they're smarter than everyone else, even when the answers are literally right in front of you.
like strat said, if you can't afford it, don't do it. save your money.
strat81 wrote:Kooter Kicker wrote:i'm lowering my car with stock struts, i have done it with my civic a few years ago and never had any issues
now i would assume after a few years and miles they will blow out but nothing i'm really worried about.
and the ride on my civic wasnt bad at all, its all about what you want to do, people on here might call me stupid, i'm just cheap i want the look not performance
ok have at me
1. just because you did it to your civic does not mean it is the proper way to do it. j-body struts are notorious for being junk (even with the factory springs. as a matter of fact, to the OP, you might want to check your stockers as depending on mileage they may already be leaking)
2. being cheap is not a good reason to make your car unsafe. if you can't afford to modify a car correctly, you shouldn't be modifying a car at all. i waited upwards of 7 months before installing the lowering springs on my car as I didn't have the money for the proper struts. (which have since been replaced by tein ss coilovers)
3. the ride in your civic wasn't bad compared to what?
1> i have them check that when I put the springs on that was great input,
2> i can afford it but I personally don't see the point.
3> the ride on my civic wasn't bad, not enough for me to complain about, it rode better with my springs than it did with my air ride system. I had cylinders not bags but i could make it hop so I was happy with it. but that car is totaled.
Kooter Kicker wrote:strat81 wrote:Kooter Kicker wrote:i'm lowering my car with stock struts, i have done it with my civic a few years ago and never had any issues
now i would assume after a few years and miles they will blow out but nothing i'm really worried about.
and the ride on my civic wasnt bad at all, its all about what you want to do, people on here might call me stupid, i'm just cheap i want the look not performance
ok have at me
1. just because you did it to your civic does not mean it is the proper way to do it. j-body struts are notorious for being junk (even with the factory springs. as a matter of fact, to the OP, you might want to check your stockers as depending on mileage they may already be leaking)
2. being cheap is not a good reason to make your car unsafe. if you can't afford to modify a car correctly, you shouldn't be modifying a car at all. i waited upwards of 7 months before installing the lowering springs on my car as I didn't have the money for the proper struts. (which have since been replaced by tein ss coilovers)
3. the ride in your civic wasn't bad compared to what?
1> i have them check that when I put the springs on that was great input,
2> i can afford it but I personally don't see the point.
3> the ride on my civic wasn't bad, not enough for me to complain about, it rode better with my springs than it did with my air ride system. I had cylinders not bags but i could make it hop so I was happy with it. but that car is totaled.
1> check them again. Do you hear clunking when going over bumps? you will soon
2>The point is to not use shlt. The stock struts are just that. Here lets draw a picture: stock struts=stock springs lowering struts= lowering springs
3>The ride on my go kart isnt bad either. Your comparing apples to oranges.
End of discussion. Man people plss me off. Read this thread again from the top. They taught me and they'll teach you.
(BlackFire)
BlackFire (E W) wrote:Kooter Kicker wrote:strat81 wrote:Kooter Kicker wrote:i'm lowering my car with stock struts, i have done it with my civic a few years ago and never had any issues
now i would assume after a few years and miles they will blow out but nothing i'm really worried about.
and the ride on my civic wasnt bad at all, its all about what you want to do, people on here might call me stupid, i'm just cheap i want the look not performance
ok have at me
1. just because you did it to your civic does not mean it is the proper way to do it. j-body struts are notorious for being junk (even with the factory springs. as a matter of fact, to the OP, you might want to check your stockers as depending on mileage they may already be leaking)
2. being cheap is not a good reason to make your car unsafe. if you can't afford to modify a car correctly, you shouldn't be modifying a car at all. i waited upwards of 7 months before installing the lowering springs on my car as I didn't have the money for the proper struts. (which have since been replaced by tein ss coilovers)
3. the ride in your civic wasn't bad compared to what?
1> i have them check that when I put the springs on that was great input,
2> i can afford it but I personally don't see the point.
3> the ride on my civic wasn't bad, not enough for me to complain about, it rode better with my springs than it did with my air ride system. I had cylinders not bags but i could make it hop so I was happy with it. but that car is totaled.
1> check them again. Do you hear clunking when going over bumps? you will soon
2>The point is to not use shlt. The stock struts are just that. Here lets draw a picture: stock struts=stock springs lowering struts= lowering springs
3>The ride on my go kart isnt bad either. Your comparing apples to oranges.
End of discussion. Man people plss me off. Read this thread again from the top. They taught me and they'll teach you.
do you work at autozone too...
no he just listened and took advice.
but go ahead and don't listen.
:facepalm: Ok, lets take a step back here and look at how your shock/spring combo works. You hit a bump, wheel goes up, spring compresses. You're over the bump, spring rebounds, but its essentially a spring with a mass on it and it would oscillate up and down till infinity if there werent any outside forces acting on it. The outside forces in this case is called dampening, and is provided by your damper (shock or strut [you have struts in the front and shocks in the back]). The damper works by having and piston in a fluid (liquid or gas) which supplies resistance to motion and thus an outside force to act on the spring. The stock shocks and struts are designed to provide damping for the stock spring rate, a higher spring rate in a lowering spring will be able to over power the damper and you'll get whats called under damping. And that is what makes the ride bouncy. The bouncy ride will over heat the seal on the piston (typically some kind of oring), then it will fail to seal and make the ride even more bouncy until it fails entirely and you get essentially no damping. Also, drop struts have a shorter rod, or a longer travel and wont bottom out in the strut body when used with lowering springs. And bottoming out also damages the piston and makes your damping force go away.
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