Hey guys! While I am new to this forum, I have been involved in forums for the last 5 years.. i know it sucks when someone new comes on board and doesnt search..
With that said, the car I am working on, will not start. Let me run down a list of things we know, or have tried..
The fuel pump is coming on.
The ANTI Theft Light is solid, no blinking.
When I pulled the spark plug from number one, it had oil on it. After cleaning it, putting it back in, trying to fire again, then pulling it again, it had gas on it this time.. Plugs 2 through 4 had no liquid on them.
The car will trys to start. Sometimes the crank will turn, sometimes it wont.
We got a socket on the crank and made a full rotation on it by hand.
The car sounds the exact same with the coil pack plugged and unplugged.
The car sounds almost like its seized, but we know its not because we could hand turn it.
There is a weird ground wire under the coil pack, that looks like it has been cut off. I cannot tell what it goes to or should it go to anything? I have posted a picture at the bottom.
Any help would be awesome. Thanks guys!
Crank position sensor... is my guess.
John Lenko wrote:Crank position sensor... is my guess.
Whats the process of checking that?
Scanner would probably read the signal. Otherwise an oscilloscope, but a multimeter could probably sense voltage coming from it. Sensor itself is less than $15 iirc and worth replacing imo. First oil change I did on my car I replaced mine, because if it completely goes out you're pretty much towing it home. A lot of times they start acting up once the car/sensor is warmed up and will cause a car to stall at idle and not crank back up, yet mysteriously the car will come back to life after cooling down.
Actually, scratch that. I skipped over this line:
Quote:
Sometimes the crank will turn, sometimes it wont.
Work on the starter first... if you have a problem there, best to solve it first.
Is it possible the ground goes to the body somewhere? kinda sounds like the motor isnt grounded to the car. I forgot to ground the battery to my motor after i swapped and the motor turned over real slow, sometimes not at all... and guess what... no spark.. this should be free to try.. so might as well try it.
- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
The ground strap pictured in the photo above, is correct in it's placement... seen it before, I don't know how it works but that's what it's supposed to look like.
Thanks for the info guys... Below are the updates...
Pulled the starter, tested it at autozone. It passed.
Pulled the coil and plug boots off again. Tried the old spark plug against the block trick. no spark. I think we are narrowing it down to not getting fire...
Tried it without the spark plug, just a screw driver to the metal tip of the plug boot, nothing.
Didnt have a multimeter, only a circuit tester and did not get a 6v or 12v reading out of any of the wires on the coil pack harness.
Does anyone have a wiring diagrahm of the coil pack harness?
Ok, so I have found this... Can someone help me read it?
if your crank postion sensor is bad or unplugged you wont have fire because the car doesn't know when to fire. How much experience do you have with cars?
- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
Oedwards wrote:if your crank postion sensor is bad or unplugged you wont have fire because the car doesn't know when to fire. How much experience do you have with cars?
I have a good amount of experience with cars. This is not my car. This is a good friend of mine who is a very poor college student, so he doesnt have money to waste on trying out different parts to see if they are working or not... What Im trying to do, is get a solid confirmation as to what is wrong, before I have him buy something.
The crank position sensor is not unplugged, I have confirmed that. It may be bad, but I am not sure of a way to test it. I would like to test the connections going to the coil and make sure it is even receiving the signal. If the crank postition sensor is bad, would it still allow the pcm to send a signal to the coil? Any way that I can test this?
Too bad you weren't close, I have a brand new crank sensor here. its for a 3100 though. Do you have 12v on the pink wire when the key is turned on? if not check the fuse.
- Your not-so-local, untrained, uncertified, backyard mechanic. But my @!#$ runs
NM I've already said it can be checked with an o-scope or meter. Not many people have a scope, but the cps on these cars are magnetic pickup type reading off a reluctor ring and can be measured for AC voltage when cranking. Voltage will be very small (we're talking millivolts here) and I'd check it with an analog meter over a digital. If you have a signal at the cps then you have to verify signal at the icm.
That ground connects your coils to the engine, through the cover. They had to put it there becasue the cover is bolted down on rubber bushings. Really stupid design.
Paying someone to install parts and bragging about it being fast, is like watching someone bang your wife and being proud to raise their kids.
UPDATES!!!
Ok, worked on the car yesterday. These are the new updates:
We are getting power to the coil packs.
Ruled out the Ignition Control Module. It tested fine.
Replaced the plugs and Crankshaft Position Sensor.
We are getting some, but little spark to the top of the coil pack.
At this point, im thinking its one of two things... Either the coil packs or the camshaft position sensor... I hate shooting in the dark here because this is a poor college student who cant spend money on gambles..
Is it getting fuel? I would test Fuel pressure.
What does little spark to the top of the coil pack mean? you either are or are not getting spark.
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Definitely check for fuel. If you have an ohm meter, test resistance of injectors, test resistance of coil packs, use dielectric compound on coil pack related connections. Theoretically, the car should run without the cam sensor hooked up. Make sure that none of the porcelain is cracked on the plugs themselves, i've had brand new plugs that have been messed up before. Also, check the gap. But I highly suggest that you get an ohm meter and check resistance of aforementioned items. It will not give definitive results if something is bad, but it is a start, and doesn't cost anything to test since you already have stuff apart. A compression check of the cylinders wouldn't hurt either, since you are already there.
I'm also going to assume it is a 2.4L, but what year is the car?
"Boosting a z..... one step at a time."
Hello! Its a 97 2.4l..
We are getting fuel pressure for sure. You could clean off the old plugs, put them back in and try to start it, pull the plugs back out and smell the gas on them...
I put new plugs in it, thinking the old ones may have been fouled out.. Not the case.
Do you have the number I am aiming for when testing the resistance on the coil packs?
