I am going to post everything that I have done so everyone will be aware of the situation.
1. About 1 year ago I changed the factory cluster out of my 1996 cavalier 2.2L with a 1997 4 door LS cavalier cluster that had the RPM tach.
2. Recently I sprayed the engine off while the car was running and I noticed it was missing a little like water in the gas and it was hard on starting so I parked the car.
3. After waiting a few days I had a 1995 cavalier 2.3L engine had 203kmiles on the cluster so I was like ok im going to change everything to make my cavy a z24 so I changed the cluster because it had the same milage as my car but not thinking it was a 2.3L engine and my cavy was a 2.2 so it had different computers.
4. The problem lies here after changing the cluster ( my stupidity ) the car would not start or even crank over after sitting for several days and me not starting it all it will do is just sit and want even crank over the theft light stays on so does the battery light and the oil light.
5. I tried every step possible, Unhooking the battery the hot terminal first left off for 45 minutes then tried the negative terminal for 45 minutes with no success, I tried jumping the starter and the car will start up and shut back off less than 15 secs running and the theft light blinks then goes off. I also tried this had my dad jump the starter and me holding the keyswitch to the run position and the car will run for a minute then shut off and theft system light still blinks and sometimes the battery & oil light goes away and only thing remaining is the (blue) highbeam light & theft light.
What should I do at this point? I was told that if I had the factory cluster that came out of the car everything would be ok but I lost it, Im hoping my car is not junk now but im thinking it is. I even tried another used starter & solenoid and a new battery with no success. Please some of you professionals help me I want to get a car running considering I don't have a car at all to drive! Thank You for reading this long topic but I tried to be as self explantory as possible.
Yes I installed the 95 z 24 cluster in my base, After I started having the problems I took the cluster out and tried the cluster from the LS that had the RPM tach and thats the cluster that came out of the 4 door LS cavalier that I had in the car and it was running fine. I crushed my other cavalier and it had the factory cluster in the trunk so I went down to a friends house who had a factory 1997 cavalier and I installed his cluster and the car will not crank at all just like it would not crank with the base LS 4 door cavalier cluster. The car will not even crank over, I turn the key to the run position and all it does is turns the theft system light and the other lights on, I noticed something weird that happend yesterday, I turned the key to the run position and held it forward while my dad jumped the starter with a screwdriver and it ran for like 30seconds to a minute and the theft system light starts blinking and it just shuts off and the theft system light blinks for like 1 minute then shuts the car off. I would really appreciate someones help and I am offering to pay cause I need a vechicle so I can pick up my daughter, Thanx in advance for reading my post I really appreciate it.
Ok I done exactly as the instructions says and the theft system light is still blinking, I had to start the car from the starter because when trying to start from the ignition it will not even try to crank over. My family is helping me check out the car right now and they say that its not getting any fuel to run. We are in the process of changing the fuel filter to see if that helps, I am not sure whats wrong with the car I have tried everything.
I am beginning to think its going to take the factory 1996 cavalier cluster and possibly a 1996 computer to fix my car because of my stupidity for installing the 1995 z24 cavalier cluster possibly messed the computer up. I hope that isnt the problem but I don't know what else it could be.
the issue you're having: the 95 cluster is looking for an obd-1 ecm, but the 96 is an obd-2 unit. i dont think you're going to get it to work.
JBO Stickers! Get yours today!
I don't think the 95 does not have theft lock, where did you plug the 3wire from the ignition switch to??? also, the anti-theft has
nothing to do with the starting circuit. It should crank wether it has a cluster or not.
I haven't tried to use the 1995 z-24 cavalier cluster anymore, All im doing now is concentrating on using the one that I had used before. I plugged everything up normal for the cluster it was the same hookups etc... The car will not crank so it has to be another problem, I noticed this by thinking back about a year ago when a friend and me had the passlock problem and we got on here and found out how to reset the passlock and the car ran fine.
Here are the updates we have done so far, Tried resetting the passlock several times with no luck, Installed old cluster and car would still not crank so my uncle said this car is not getting any fuel at all lets check the fuel filter so we checked it and it was clogged up with what looked like mud and the gas was nasty and you could not blow through it. I just don't understand whats going on because when you try to ground the starter out and try to start the cavalier it runs fine for like 30 secs then shuts back off. Could it be the key switch going bad to keep it from not being able to rotate the engine? I appreciate the help, Thanx in advance!
get the meter out and check for power in the start position, some j-bodies had an extra relay under the hood near the radiator. start at the c100 connector(under the aircleaner)- should be A8 for the starter- a yellow or purple wire. if you dont have 12+ there then it is in the interior. the theft lock won't reset if the starter system won't start the car.
Hey got a quick question, Ok I took the computer off the car and both sides of the computer was busted open, Im pretty sure this happend from wrecking the car and once I sprayed the motor off it got water down in the computer and shortened the car out could that be a possibility of the car not even wanting to crank by turning the keyswitch to the run position?
I called the local advance auto parts here in ky and they told me a new computer could be $128 but I would have to take the computer to a dealer to have it programmed, Can't I just program the computer myself by doing the passlock bypass? I appreciate all the help, I would post a picture of the computer but my internet is so slow I can't hardly do anything except check my messages. I will try to get the picture posted tonight and I will try what you have posted here and see if that helps.
btw I would like to ask one more thing, If I can't program the computer when I buy it new, Would a used computer from a 1996 jerked from a car at the salvage yard work? OR would that have to be programmed also. I don't mind to buy a new one if I knew 100% sure that would fix my problem but the computer that came out of the car is busted open so when I sprayed the engine off it had to cause a malfunction or shorten out and me not knowing the computer was busted open
The 96 computer is an OBD-II, and it's going to want more things to be connected to it than the 95 has. It also most likely has a couple of different plugs on it, so you probably wont be able to swap the two.
Just a quick look on car-part.com for the midwest (where I am, not sure where you're at) and I saw a high price from the JY of 263 dollars, and a low price of 20 dollars. Personally I got myself a 99 ECU from a yard for 40 bucks, so I'd say anywhere in the 20-50 dollar range should be a fair price to pay. Then you shouldnt have to take it to the dealer to be programmed. The program should already be flashed onto the system, and likely hasn't just gone away.
If you've swapped the cluster, you definitely need to do a Passlock re-learn. The instructions are in the FAQ.
The 95 cluster won't work on a 96. The 95 doesn't have Passlock, the 96 does.
...j
If I go buy a new computer from advance auto parts for my 1996 cavalier why can't I just program it myself by unhooking the postive cable from the battery installing the new computer instead of having to take the new computer to a dealer? I found a computer at a local salvage for $50 but I hate to spend money on a car part and not knowing 100% sure if thats the problem. I took the computer out of my cavalier and it was busted on both sides and seems like that could possibly be the problem because im assuming water got down into it and shortend things out.
The question I have is this, IF a computer has shortend out or malfunctioned when I go to start the engine with the key would that keep the engine from rotating? I will try again what "thebondoman" says I will check for 12+ voltage if I can get another mechanic to help me out because im not very good with cars I do know a little but not enough to do this on my own.
When I had this issue before the engine would rotate over and then shut off and the theft light would blink on and off but now the engine will not even rotate when you turn the ignition to the start position, I have tried a new starter/solenoid and other things. There have been several people check the car out and they say theres your problem its the cluster/starter/solenoid water in the distrubitor etc.. but I can't go by hearsay from some people around here cause i'll be out more money than the car is worth.
Johnbeers - aka - TheBondoMan,
Ok you were asking me where did I plug the 3 wires from the ignition, I plugged them up normally see the 1995z24 cluster had two hookups just like the 1996 cluster had I just plugged them up in the exact same position, Could pluggin the 1995 z24 cluster have shortend the "ignition switch" since the 1995 cluster had the obd-1 ecm and the 1996 has the obd-2 ? Later today or tommorrow I will post pictures of both clusters, I will also post pictures of the wiring but what made me think the 1995 z24 cluster would work is because it has the same hookup as the 1996 does, But like you have said and others the 1995 z24 does not have the theft lock and it could have caused the computer or ignition to shorten out when installing the cluster. I am hoping that I am on the right track here cause I really need a car to drive, Living 20 miles out of town and not having anything to drive is very frustrating. If someone could call me or let me call them to get advice I would really appreciate it or if someone could just chat with me over the internet I would be willing to pay because this is very very frustrating! Thank You everyone for the quick replys I really appreciate it!
Can someone please post and try to help me with this? I have been looking forward for help with this issue for weeks. I could really use the help right now please help me as soon as possible with this solution, I have tried everything possible and I dont know what else to try I have got so frustrated with this car that im about to just junk it LOL
well I really appreciate the response if someone could respond as soon as possible I really could appreciate the fast response! Thank You!!!!!
Put it back the way it was and see what happens. There's nothing else I can suggest over the internet, other than taking it to an actual mechanic.
I can't diagnose starting issues without seeing the car in person. There's just too much stuff to check:
- starter
- ignition module
- key cylinder/ignition switch
- starter recall wiring/relay
- neutral safety switch/clutch switch
- battery
...j
good call lenko....my brain is twisted from reading this post....
i have a 95z and the car does have passlock i had a remote start put in and a module foe passlock had to be put in because the car kept shutting off after remote start------im also a mechanic and checked for myself to make sure and it does have passlock----i spoke to some a gm tech and diffinetly have to get the same same year cluster because the ignition sends a signal to cluster then to pcm to activate fuel pump
[font=Courier]Hello Everyone,
I know this is an old post and I know its been awhile since ive gotten to post im truly sorry but I hope I can still get some assistance
Ok I have racked my brain with this and ive had several mechanics to check the car out, We have looked over everything everyone has posted here and still can't get the car to start from the keyswitch. When the battery is fully charged the car will sometimes start from a toggle switch or if you cross the starter over it starts and will sit and run for quite sometime I have had it running for about 30 minutes today and test drove it but the ? I have is that bypassing the theft/passlock if you jump the starter off to start the car or run a toggle switch?
Ok I have a question reguarding John Lenkos Response
I can't diagnose starting issues without seeing the car in person. There's just too much stuff to check:
- starter
- ignition module
- key cylinder/ignition switch
- starter recall wiring/relay
- neutral safety switch/clutch switch
- battery
I put another used starter on the car it takes the toggle switch about 5 clicks to start the car with my starter on the car about 1-2 clicks on the toggle switch to start it so that shows the other start I installed was going bad so I need to put my other one back on right?
Ok also can you show me a picture of the ignition module? I can't seem to find that exactly, Also the key cylinder/ignition switch pictures of both of those would be much appreciated, The starter recall wiring/relay I am having an issue out of finding that, And last but not least the neutral safety switch since mines automatic, The car when starting from crossing over starter or toggle switch starts in park and neutral havent really tried the other gears.
The battery will not hold charge for some reason, I called advance auto parts and they said that if the alternator is completly dead that if you do boost the car off and it starts up from crossing it over or starting it up with toggle switch it still doesnt mean that the alternator is good but what doesnt make sense you leave the car running for about 20 minutes and take the battery cable off the car still runs I was always told that is showing the alternator is charging.
Ok I have one last question reguarding sam torres response
i have a 95z and the car does have passlock i had a remote start put in and a module foe passlock had to be put in because the car kept shutting off after remote start------im also a mechanic and checked for myself to make sure and it does have passlock----i spoke to some a gm tech and diffinetly have to get the same same year cluster because the ignition sends a signal to cluster then to pcm to activate fuel pump
Sam I did put a cluster out of my 95 z24 it has the 2.3L engine in it so it has to have a different computer setup, So not thinking like I said before I switched clusters and put that 95z24 one in my 96 cavalier Automatic 2.2L engine cause I wanted to change most the outside and interior parts to make my cavalier like a z24. So when I done that the car would never start from the keyswitch it would just turn the cluster lights on and the theft system like kept blinking and even when I tried running a toggle switch the car would not start or from crossing the starter over so I just took and bought a original 96 computer to go into my car cause mine was cracked and looked like it shorted out from spraying the engine off. After doing the passlock I was able to start the car from crossing the starter or running a toggle switch with the 97 cluster in it. Ive been reading your post over and over and im thinking the 95z24 cluster could have possibly messed up everything with the cars starting and even though I put the computer with the same # and same model year of the car Im beginning to think I might have to go by the same year cluster to get the ignition to send a signal to the cluster then to the pcm to activate the fuel pump. I just hope your right thats going to cost me another $50 bucks for the cluster and ive been out alot on the car so far. The only thing I havent changed in the car is basically the things ive listed like the stering column/keyswitch. I hope you and lenko and some others can help me figure this out.
I tried being as clear as possible about the problem, But im so agervated with the car cause its been sitting for 7 months with new 17" tires on it, New brakes all around, New wheel bearings/ball joints/ New motor mounts all around, I done all this before I sprayed the engine off, It seems like finding a needle in a haystack, I am eventually going to be out more money and its worth and it might be so small of a problem that would make me so mad id want to bust the car to pieces once I found it out after not being able to drive the car for 7 months and paying insurance on it every 3 months
Btw this last thing im about to say might help someone figure out the issue also, When I first sprayed the engine off the car seemed to be hard to start or like the headlights would go deal and the heat would kick down and the lights would go dim and it would make like a winding noise. So I drove it to my parents home it drove fine and stuff but was missing like it had water in the gas and thats when I parked it and changed all the parts on it and started having problems.
I hope this thread isnt locked someone please respond, If it is I hope I can open another thread im needing assistance badly
Its not locked.
You have yourself quite a thread here.
First of all, the starter circuit is a stand alone circuit. meaning that the engine computer and ignition module have nothing to do with cranking the engine.
The yellow wire from the ignition switch goes to the transmission (where the shifter linkage is) out of there it goes purple. the purple wire will then either go to the starter recall relay or directly to the starter.
I have changed ignition switches and starters, I have never had to mess with the trans neutral safety switch or the recall relay.
A test light is your friend, If your dont have one, its time to buy one.
The 95 ECM is 95 only, no other will work.
since yours is a 96, Your best bet is to go to a yard and get you a ecm, but you have to get the correct one. it has to come out of a J with the exact same options as yours, same engine , trans etc. If not your going to have to take it to a dealer (the whole car). I will warn you that that ecm is used in several different cars, even some v6's and v8's. so just cause the service # matches means nothing. The only way to know for sure is to take it to someone that has a scanner that can read the vin inside the ecm.
Over all after reading your posts, Im thinking that you got some water under the coil cover(top of the engine that covers the spark plugs) water there is bad news.
But that wont cause a no crank, so you must have more than one problem.
I hope this helps.
01 cav w/01 3400 gam gt 4t45e
I have a 96 2.2 that di the same thing,not crank.It was the ignition switch and I couldnt get the theft light to go off,not blinking just solid light..Finally took it to a shop and they are still working on it, because evenm though I got it to crank,it still would not start.
The shop got it running after they got the theft light off but it is still hard to start...
