So iv read quicklilcavs sticky, and searched the forums, but i cant find the answer to my question....
why couldn't you(i), or why wouldn't you(i) just use one computer... to run the 3400 motor(standard tans), the computer and the gauges (aftermarket gauges or not)
am i missing why you couldn't or wouldn't?
i see everyone says piggybacking the computer to run the gauges(and that's the only reason), but why? why couldn't you just rewire it?
i do know you have to delete the automatic transmission stuff and plugs on the computer but still?
maybe i am missing something, someone point it out!

Simply put, if you plan on running a 95-99 and using the factory gauges, you need to piggy back the computers. If you are using a 2000+, you can use the 2000+ Impala flash, IF you're using a manual transmission. The problem with the Impala flash and an auto is that the shifting doesn't work with the J-body transmission. If you were to swap in the Impala transmission, it would work.

The reason for the piggy back on the 95-99 cars is that there is no ECM flash for the 3x00 engines that has the correct data signal for the gauges. GM is such a pain in the ass with the way they do things that almost every vehicle has a different format for the serial data to the gauge cluster.

I'm sorry in advance if I make anyone mad on this but here goes... I swapped my 96 Cav to a 3400 using stock Isuzu 5spd, 00 Grand Am Pcm and 00 Impala eng harness. One pcm to run the guages. The pcm is storing only a few codes which is an evap, cooling fan circuit 2, an auto trans code and a anti-theft code which will be deleted with HPT after I get my next motor in Wed. It is easier to run the stock pcm for the guages and yes there is uart data but you can get passed that if you know how to wire and bypass and override a couple things. Mike from Milzymotorsports and I successfully ran the stock guages perfectly with a little thinking. All trouble lights wired in correctly and off. No bcm.


C:\Users\Phillip\Pictures

Ok,
I am using a 96 cav, probably gunna get 2000+ motor and ECM (3400)
you said i cant use factory gauges without piggybacking, so does that mean i would have to use aftermarket gauges such as (http://www.dakotadigital.com) and it'll run and everything?
or could i possibly get 2000+ cav gauges and rig it into my car?

you said,
"The problem with the Impala flash and an auto is that the shifting doesn't work with the J-body transmission. If you were to swap in the Impala transmission, it would work."
so a manual transmission won't work?

3500gtp wrote:I'm sorry in advance if I make anyone mad on this but here goes... I swapped my 96 Cav to a 3400 using stock Isuzu 5spd, 00 Grand Am Pcm and 00 Impala eng harness. One pcm to run the guages. The pcm is storing only a few codes which is an evap, cooling fan circuit 2, an auto trans code and a anti-theft code which will be deleted with HPT after I get my next motor in Wed. It is easier to run the stock pcm for the guages and yes there is uart data but you can get passed that if you know how to wire and bypass and override a couple things. Mike from Milzymotorsports and I successfully ran the stock guages perfectly with a little thinking. All trouble lights wired in correctly and off. No bcm.

Does your car have a tach, and do all of your warning lights work properly. If so, please enlighten the rest of us who have worked on various ways of getting this to work. I'm very familiar with the operation of our gauge clusters, and the differences in the data streams, and if you have truly found a way to do this, I'd be very interested in hearing how you did it.

Slappee, you can swap out your wiring to a 2000+ J-body, and then use the Impala flash and you'll be fine. To make it all easier, you're going to want to swap out the dash as well (the cluster is shaped differently on the 00+ cars). Aftermarket gauges are a popular option. Many of us are running them. Most guys have built a plate that mounts individual gauges into the cluster housing, but I opted for the DD custom setup. I believe there is another member who has now ordered this setup. It's pricey, but I love it:

http://www.j-body.org/members/image/quiklilcav/Cluster.JPG

Also, read what I posted again. Your transmission question is answered there.

Quiklilcav I will get a diagram put together after I get my new eng in. Basically we did one light at a time. Battery light, low-coolant light, oil light, temp guage which we used a 3 prong temp sensor instead of the usual 2 prong. The anti-theft light is one that I'm still working on even though the car ran anyway. Yes I'm running a cluster with the factory tach. The A/C is controlled off the 3400 pcm and the cruise I'm not sure of yet because I just got a cc cable that will fit so I will be working on that as well. The fuel gauge was only one 5v ref wire I ran to the 3400 pcm that I can remember wiring. But I'll definately let you know and give you a diagram of how I did it.


C:\Users\Phillip\Pictures

Please do! I am still looking for wiring diagrams and stuff for when I dive into this.. Should I just go get a book for which ever PCM I get?

3500gtp wrote:Quiklilcav I will get a diagram put together after I get my new eng in. Basically we did one light at a time. Battery light, low-coolant light, oil light, temp guage which we used a 3 prong temp sensor instead of the usual 2 prong. The anti-theft light is one that I'm still working on even though the car ran anyway. Yes I'm running a cluster with the factory tach. The A/C is controlled off the 3400 pcm and the cruise I'm not sure of yet because I just got a cc cable that will fit so I will be working on that as well. The fuel gauge was only one 5v ref wire I ran to the 3400 pcm that I can remember wiring. But I'll definately let you know and give you a diagram of how I did it.

It's the cluster that I'm really curious about. The cruise and A/C aren't an issue on any combination. However, I'm really interested to hear how the tach was able to be run off the Impala flash, considering it's part of the 8192 baud data stream, and the Impala runs a 10400 baud rate stream with an entirely different protocol for the gauges. When you say you did each light separately, do you mean you wired them directly, or you got into the Impala program and corrected them one at a time? You mentioned using the 3 pin output temp sensor. This would indicate to me a piggyback setup, since the temp gauge in the 96 cluster is also part of the data stream. You do not wire a sensor directly to the cluster.

^^ +1

Additionally your fuel gauge on the 95-99 does not go thru the PCM to operate that gauge. Even with no PCM at all I can get a correct fuel level reading. Additionally, I fail to believe that Mike at Milzy Motorsports was much help, since he's been such a huge help in the past.





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

Tach, idiot lights, and temp gauge all work off of uart 8192 baud. how are you making the gauges read a different protocol? Passlock also goes thru the gauges; how are you working that as well?

Weebel wrote:Im to smart to go to strip clubs.

Screw uart data.. You can get around it.


C:\Users\Phillip\Pictures

3500gtp wrote:Screw uart data.. You can get around it.

Do tell. Many of us have spent a lot of time examining how these clusters work. You've given lots of vagueries regarding this, and stated that you'd post diagrams, but we're still waiting for this info. If you've really found a way to get our clusters to work as you say, great, please share. However, until you offer any info to the contrary, I'm now having a very hard time believing you've accomplished what you claim.

Quiklilcav wrote:

3500gtp wrote:Screw uart data.. You can get around it.

Do tell. Many of us have spent a lot of time examining how these clusters work. You've given lots of vagueries regarding this, and stated that you'd post diagrams, but we're still waiting for this info. If you've really found a way to get our clusters to work as you say, great, please share. However, until you offer any info to the contrary, I'm now having a very hard time believing you've accomplished what you claim.

Communications protocols are a joke. It's easy to get around on just about any system. Hell, I've been using the same 56k modem since 1998. All you have to do is plug it into your cable line and it works fine.





i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick

still waiting on that diagram 3500gtp......


I myself got the, PCM Connector End Views from the dealer today... should i post that here? lol
But hopefully i can reflash and etc before my motor is ready...

you'll be waiting a while cause its been ask for a few times



JBO since July 30, 2001

i have a 96 cavalier 2.2 5 spd am collecting parts to swap to a 3400 v6, in this post mr. quick u say u can use the 00+ impala computer with the 2000+ cav gauge cluster and to use the 2000+ dash as well, my question is this when swapping the cluster and wires and everything should i use the bcm as well from the donor car? second question which wires need to me modified if any? and third and final question is this, after the swap is complete how difficult would it be to get a cavalier with a 3400 swap inspected i live in nc and i know for 96+ it has an obd2 inspection would the fact the motor is not a stock motor make a difference??? looked everywhere and cant seem to find this info. thanks in advance for any help or information supplied.

since you have a 96 and you don't have a BCM you will have to swap in the 00+ BCM
you will also have to swap the airbag modual under the seat with a modual thats configured with the BCM. you also need a headlight harness for an 00+ for 95-99 cavaliers you need a 03-05 sunfire headlight harness and just chance the headlight plugs

then you need to repin the door switch to the BCM for that to work properly and your radio has to be repin

OR swap all interior wiring FRONT TO BACK AND NO RE-PINNING

air bag and BCM have to match so get it from a car with NON-blown air bags



JBO since July 30, 2001

Yeah, Josh, when trying to run the 00+ electronics and cluster in a 99 and earlier car, you have to pretty much rewire the entire car, and you'd need to swap the entire dash, because the 95-99 Cavalier dash will not fit the 00+ cluster properly. (As with anything else, you can modify it, but really, you have to balance out how much work to make each option work and see what is actually the easiest option).

its not rewiring the car its basicly install the harness and match the C200 harness i think its 4 wires that move



JBO since July 30, 2001

thanks for both of yalls help on this subject, the headlight harness is most likely HIGHLY needed as i have not had time to dive into this car at all picked it up for $300 with new clutch new timing chain and a few other things done, someone attempted to steal the car and upon failin to do so destroyed the steering column and threw a 50 gal. drum through the windshield, prior to this the guy that owned it wired up of all things 4 tacky fog lights and for whatever reason a toggle switch for the low beams the turn signal still controls the high beams but will not operate the low beams no idea what the deal is with that but i wound up switchin the column to one out of a similar year sunfire with tilt wheel, would like to use the 2000+ gauges because the cluster design seems better looking to me, as far as the air bag is there anyway to delete them? again only paid a few hundred for the car not lookin to dump ten grand into the car just a few simple upgrades as i plan to drrive this car till the wheels fall off then put them back on and keep going lol...... and thanks again the advice is very helpful

For the headlights, it sounds like the combo switch might be junk, and instead of getting another one, the guy may have just purchased a $5 switch and jerry-rigged it. For the airbags, you can simply not hook them up, but it's not legal to do so in most states.

i dont know what he did to it i will trace the wires back and see what he did and try to reverse it it has a new multi switch with the new (used sunfire coumn) and assuming i was to leave the guages in the car, and i know this has been talked about time and time again but i must ask when u piggy back the 2.2 ecu for the gauges what is the basics of this i have worked on cars mechanically for the last 13 years never really dove into wiring, or as an alternative does anyone on here by any chance do this? if i send you the 2.2 and 3400 harnesses could someone on here combine the two? and if so what would be needed and the biggest issue what am i looking at price wise?

headlight harness when using an 00+ cluster you have to use an 00+ headlight harness the combo switch works the same i never changed mine the only think i did was used a 03-05 sunfire headlight harness as i have 99 headlights and i changed the plug ends to match the 9005/9006 bulbs this is the easiest way for 95-99 cavs as they require 2 bulbs

airbags if you do 00+ your airbag modual and BCM have to be from the same car or have the same id code just find a car that was rear ended and the bags went deployed and use them



JBO since July 30, 2001

Pcm/Bcm/Sdm (air bag module) must have the same VIN or you will get an option Configuration fault and AirBag light will be on and system disabled.



http://www.weatherallsautomotive.com http://www.planethax.com/j-body