I don't have a graphing calculator to do the calculations right at this moment and i need the answer fast..
I'm looking at a to4e
SPECS:
.50 A/R COMPRESSOR
.63 A/R TURBINE
.57 TRIM
here is the compressor map
will this be effiecient enough for 13psi, and capable of 250whp on a 2200??
keep in mind that this won't be a stock motor..
ps. i know its hard figure this stuff out with spefics on the motor..but just in general will this be able to do what i want ?
Quote:
Volumeking333(Ryan) Online
Yesterday 11:59 PM
I don't have a graphing calculator to do the calculations right at this moment and i need the answer fast..
why do you need a graphing calculator?
That is overkill for 13 psi on an OHV. Try a super60, or T04E 40 trim (even 50 trim would suffice if you want to be able to really push it later...50 trim is efficient for 20+).
Also, I believe that would be .60 a/r on the cold side (not .50). .63 a/r on the hot side is good though, although you could get away with .48 and have a quicker spool and better driveability.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
TheFlyingSquirrel (PJ) wrote:Quote:
Volumeking333(Ryan) Online
Yesterday 11:59 PM
I don't have a graphing calculator to do the calculations right at this moment and i need the answer fast..
why do you need a graphing calculator?
why do you need to make pointless posts that have nothing to do with the question???
sorry that i said graphing calculator instead of calculator....i don't have one at the moment, so i couldn't do it
so, OHV notec what do you think this turbo is capable of on a 2200?? would it be worthless totally or could i still make my goals of 250whp easily on it with it being in its effieciency range?
Quote:
why do you need to make pointless posts that have nothing to do with the question???
another one of you people huh?
you're on a computer right? I'm pretty sure all computers have calculators.
see?
Why don't you admit you want to be spoon fed what to do? Compressor matching is simple algebra, anybody with a basic high school education can do it.
But so you don't cry, you're turbo is not well suited for what you want to do.
It'd be better for a car that spun higher rpm or had better volumetric efficiency. You're pretty close to the surge line around 3000rpm, altho I admit you go thru the center efficiency island pretty nicely... still the surge line is to be avoided at all costs.
like notec said, go with a super 60, especially if 250whp is the goal.. it'll have good spool characteristics and give a lil head room if you want more power.
next time don't pull some BS story like you don't have a calculator... just say you don't want to do it yourself. There's no need to lie.
consult this thread... i made the matching process a little easier than most explain it
Perfect turbo match
next time I won't be so helpful, or so nice.
yes i'll admit it, i like to be spoon fed on what to do thats exactly it.
I am sorry that i forgot about the calculator on the computor, and posted so i can get an answer quickly..
thank you for your kind answer
given the size of a T04E, and the volumetric efficiency of a 2200 (or lack thereof, rather), that thing wouldn't even SPOOL until you were hitting redline, or damn close to it. In the end, your PEAK power would be pretty high, but a car with a T3S60 running the same boost level and making LESS peak power would be able to smoke you easily. Porting and a well designed cam might help, but overall, its not a turbo for a homegrown project, it would be more suited to someone really trying to push the limits with a built engine, and even then, a smaller turbo would probably be better.
And for the love of god, don't get so bent out of shape over a simple question. You said you didn't have a graphing calculator, and PJ asked why you though you needed one. If you're not good with math or just don't really grasp the math needed to do a compressor map, just say so and ask for some help.
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'Nuff said
If you want someone else to do the work, there's a nice spreadsheet on a GN site somewhere. I made a highly simplified version for doing the calculations easily (just input RPM, ambient temp, VE, cu in, and boost). If you want a copy, just let me know...I also have a copy of the highly specific and informative GN version.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
no ones getting bent out of shape..
i was stating that i didn't have a calculator, because i didn't. i forgot about the computer calculator. most people obviously need a calculator to do the math quickly and/ or correctly, yes i could have done it free hand and taken forever
Thank you for the answer
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:and the volumetric efficiency of a 2200 (or lack thereof, rather)
It sucks how true that is lol.
for a name like volumeking.... you should know a thing or 2 about it......... haha just kidding ................
I'm running a .63 trim 48ar.............. right now............
I ran 222whp at 10.8psi on stock internals with that turbo.............
so 250whp at around 13-14 psi is DEFINITELY doable................
get a super 60 or the same turbo I have ............... QUICK spool and great top end since our car has a low redline .......
Good luck....
Lee
JDM Civic Hatch
Status: Parting Out Turbo Kit....
14.224 @ 102.01MPH @ 5.5psi.... 2.3 60'
Next: Civic JDM B16a2 w/GSR LSD Turbo - Goal 300whp 1400lbs...
notec, can you please post the link to that spreadsheet?
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:given the size of a T04E, and the volumetric efficiency of a 2200 (or lack thereof, rather), that thing wouldn't even SPOOL until you were hitting redline, or damn close to it.
Are you being serious? I had a T04E compressor on my 2200, and it spooled WAAAAAY before redline.
275hp & 306tq - 1999 2.2 ohv
13.2 @ 108 mph
-1996 2.4 liter + Turbo + Built motor + Torco + More boost = Lots o' Power
-2000 Mustang GT + 2004 Cobra motor, Whipple 2.3 supercharger,
built rear-end,Dodge Viper spec T56 6 speed, bolt-ons = wheelies at the track!!!!!
Lee wrote:I'm running a .63 trim 48ar.............. right now............
No you're not, because, well, that doesn't exist
stevefire wrote:notec, can you please post the link to that spreadsheet?
The whole page is a good read, just don't take their opinions to heart, as they are running entirely different engines.
spreadsheet @ bottom
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Adler wrote:Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:given the size of a T04E, and the volumetric efficiency of a 2200 (or lack thereof, rather), that thing wouldn't even SPOOL until you were hitting redline, or damn close to it.
Are you being serious? I had a T04E compressor on my 2200, and it spooled WAAAAAY before redline.
lol, no i just can't read hahaha... i didn't even see the 57 trim up in the corner there.... my bad, i'm a moron
its been a long week folks, forgive me! anyway, 57 trim is still pretty big to run 13 psi.... people who use that compressor on t3/t4 hybrids on my engine are normally running 20+ psi making 360 or more wheel hp.... and at least on a 1.8, it doesn't spool that great...
Are we talking a T3/T4 here or a whole T04? I'd imagine that the whole T04 turbo would be laggy as hell since i'd assume it would have a much bigger exhaust side than the T3/T4 counterpart.
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
TheFlyingSquirrel (PJ) wrote:Quote:
why do you need to make pointless posts that have nothing to do with the question???
another one of you people huh?
you're on a computer right? I'm pretty sure all computers have calculators.
see?
Why don't you admit you want to be spoon fed what to do? Compressor matching is simple algebra, anybody with a basic high school education can do it.
But so you don't cry, you're turbo is not well suited for what you want to do.
It'd be better for a car that spun higher rpm or had better volumetric efficiency. You're pretty close to the surge line around 3000rpm, altho I admit you go thru the center efficiency island pretty nicely... still the surge line is to be avoided at all costs.
like notec said, go with a super 60, especially if 250whp is the goal.. it'll have good spool characteristics and give a lil head room if you want more power.
next time don't pull some BS story like you don't have a calculator... just say you don't want to do it yourself. There's no need to lie.
consult this thread... i made the matching process a little easier than most explain it
Perfect turbo match
next time I won't be so helpful, or so nice.
This is my post of the month choice!
1988 Pontiac Fiero, engine transplant underway.
2004 ECOtec, built and boosted
trim = wheel size in mm i believe
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
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Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Scarab (Jersey Jay 1.8T) wrote:trim = wheel size in mm i believe
That's what I thought, but I went out and measured my 60 trim wheel, and it was no where close to 60mm on the inducer side (more like 40)...didn't measure the other side though...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
i'm pretty sure its exducer or total diameter
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
Here you go, i'm not totally useless
You need to understand those two terms in order to grasp the concept of trim, a bizarre bit of tech-speak which is often thrown about. Trim is simply a term to describe the size of a specific compressor within a family of wheels. It can be expressed in abstract ways (such as when Turbonetics says they have P-trims, Q-trims, etc) or you can use the actual numeric measurement (50 trim, 57 trim, etc). Here's how you calculate the measurement:
Trim = (minor diameter / major diameter) ^2 * 100
Taken from
So you know all that but you need us to do the compressor match for you? you whore
Arrival Blue 04 LS Sport
Eco
Turbo
Megasquirt
'Nuff said
lol i didn't know that from the top of my head, its from the link i posted
I'm not smart enough for that yet, but now i won't forget it
Trim is a common term used when talking about or describing turbochargers. For example, you may hear someone say "I have a GT2871R ' 56 Trim ' turbocharger. What is 'Trim?' Trim is a term to express the relationship between the inducer* and exducer* of both turbine and compressor wheels. More accurately, it is an area ratio.
* The inducer diameter is defined as the diameter where the air enters the wheel, whereas the exducer diameter is defined as the diameter where the air exits the wheel.
Based on aerodynamics and air entry paths, the inducer for a compressor wheel is the smaller diameter. For turbine wheels, the inducer it is the larger diameter (see Figure 1.)
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech102.html
that should help describe what trim is, basically just the relationship of inducer and exducer, notice the inducer is larger on the exhaust turbine. Basically it will give you a number that can almost be defined as an angle, or "trim"
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