As some of you might know I have had issues all summer long, the car completely died at 5400rpm. KR was throught the roof and we couldn't figure out why. I tried everything from larger exhaust, lifters, cam sensor, crank sensor, tr-5 tr-6 tr-7 and a combo of ever gap under the sun, ruled out spark blowout with an MSD dis-2, checked compression which was 190psi across all 4, checked fuel pressure... it sat at 71psi constant @ 10psi, upgraded from 310cc - 650cc injectors, dyno time which we came to the conclusion it was spark related.. and we were mostly right. The AFR was dead on 12:1 till 5400rpm the it would die off... dyno showed 229whp @ 5400 then 180 @5500... and down from there. afr went from 12:1 to 12.4:1....

I just installed a coolmist.com deluxe kit (6 liter tank) and I drove about 2 miles and it was just as bad as ever... then it started pulling much harder in the lower rpm, and finally after about 5-6 pulls it pulled right through to 6600rpm.. and it makes a noticable amount more power now below 5400rpm, and way more power which I could never access before. After about 30minutes of messing around on a non busy highway we went through about 1.5-2 liters and the car runs like a champ... before I was picking up 8-10 degrees KR, and now only 2-3 in little spikes. AFR are steady at 12:1 and I am thinking things are looking good for now, we might up the boost a little tonight, go from 9-10 psi and up it to around 13-14.. but we will see... I will update when I get it back to the dyno and put some numbers down, cheers,

Garrett


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

glad to hear you've figured it out. I have to fix my problems now, and we should both head back to the dyno again!!!

what were you iat readings before ?

and what are they with it working ?

Thats not necessarily good tho... it means you may have had detonation issues that seemed like a missfire, and the water injection stopped it from happening... i would look farther into and try your car again w/o the meth injectioni

yah, hard core detonation issues, but I can't see why, when the head comes off this winter sometime, I am thinking of a thicker headgasket. It just runs so strong right now, it's unreal. I did some more tuning today, and the car is just getting stronger. I am very pleased that I can rule out PCM issue, or any sensors... But at 10psi I am curious why my cylinder pressures are high. wonder if the t4 0.60 50trim compressor has anything to do with that???


IAT's-- not sure exactly, before they were usually right around atmospheric, maybe a couple degrees higher, now I haven't checked but the intake manifold is ICE cold.


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

whats your compression ratio

richen that mofo up! and use premium if you arent using it already... premium gas from a gayeeeeeee gas station = you hate your car....

since the meth injection is stopping the knock, the knock is most likely being caused by temps, or octane... running to much boost on stock compression makes thinks hot in the engine and causes knock too

hope you figure it out



|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|

it is going to the dyno tomorrow morning,


compression - 9.2:1
AFR - 12:1

I think it must be because the "premium" is only 93 octane,.. but I am not sure why I ran higher pressure and higher compression on my last 2.4 and it ran better... this one makes WAY more power now, tomorrow we will tune it with a "real" wide band, none of this AEM bosch bull@!#$


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

try running 11.5 for afr , its what ive been running with my s/c , it was 13.0 outta the box

and 11.5 is what ive gotten the best with

keep in mind with a bosch sensor, 12:1 last time at the dyno was actually 10.8:1, so I think I might be rich, tomorrow at 10 I find out, so pumped...


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

your too lean with anything above 12 on these motors



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Rodimus Prime wrote:your too lean with anything above 12 on these motors

I wouldn't mind hearing the logic behind that...



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

sounds like you need a new wideband... where is it mounted on the exhaust system? maybe its to far away



|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|

ge_forcez22 wrote:keep in mind with a bosch sensor, 12:1 last time at the dyno was actually 10.8:1, so I think I might be rich, tomorrow at 10 I find out, so pumped...

How do you know that the AFR reading you get when you do a dyno run is more accurate then what you get with a wideband? I always thought that when they stick the probe in your muffler on the dyno it would be a less accurate reading since the cat would give a false leaner reading. Therefore since the reading you get with a wideband is before the cat it would be more accurate.

Now you mention that the brand makes a difference. Are certain brand o2 sensors more accurate than others? Please explain becuase I am a litle confused here.


FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!

yes NTK, and this is a shop that is well trusted and the guys life (and house) are in the shop. His sensor is dead on and we picked up some HP doing what tuning we could last time with his... he mounted it 6" from the turbo so it is not a muffler wideband.


Sometime early this year he will have cylinder pressure monitoring, so we will get some very accurate tuning done for my altitude.

But I still need to pull off the head and go to a boosted cometic I think...



HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

93 octane is normal, and a head gasket will most likely not fix your problem...

tail pipe sniffers read leaner then what the actual number is... so get 11.7 on that and your problem will no longer be insufficient fuel... better safe then sorry...

you should get a new knock sensor and make sure its bolted down to the correct torque spec, and make sure you have good gas... 10psi on 93octane should have 0 knock... thats pretty low boost for a built motor



|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|

I couldn't not agree more. Fuel is not the issue, and it is super low boost, I have run more boost non intercooled on a 2.4 before with stock plugs and made more power and had zero KR... something is fishy, but no one knows what, this is the first time it has run good...

I have never used a tail pipe wideband, always screw in..


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

ehh



|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|

ge_forcez22 wrote:something is fishy, but no one knows what

Pull the head and check for carbon build-up (although the water injection may have destroyed this evidence already, if it did try running without the water again and see if the problem fixed itself).
Also, a thicker headgasket may actually promote detonation depending on your current configuration oddly enough.



fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.

garrett! you're going to the dyno tomorrow?!?! GAAAH!!!

oh ya, bosch widebands suckass! I concur

I wanna gooo sh!t

steve are you around??? give me a call man, or email me :cheers


HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED

Runnig richer will lower your cylinder temps. So if your having preignition due to excessive heat the extra fuel will cool it down enough to stop the detonation.

If your not smart enough to know why 12:4 is an unacceptable AFR on these motors theres really no point in me explaining it



1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85

Rodimus Prime wrote:If your not smart enough to know why 12:4 is an unacceptable AFR on these motors theres really no point in me explaining it

I know when him ^^ and I tune my car I see knock at anything above a 12:1 afr anything under I have ZERO knock all the way to 7100 rpms at 10 psi



LE61T PTE6262 Powered

yay people agree with me



|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|