Well he said that the cylinder walls are perfect so he didnt want to bore them.
Sent me home, so i just honed them out nicely and im going to order the stock sized forged pistons.
So i have a set of brand new .020 over Wiseco Forged/Deglazed pistons now if anyone is interested
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just take it back and tell them you want it .020 over.....money is money
Find a new machine shop who wants business?
The thing is... If the walls are perfect then why bore them?? I honed them and it has a perfect glaze free finish with no defects.
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Maybe because you spent big money on pistons that you can't put in until it's bored....
12.770 @ 111.99 Intercooled Eaton M62
Yes but i can sell them for close to what i paid... And get more life out of my block
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Find a machine shop that isn't retarded. A shop shouldn't even bore the cylinders without having the pistons there to measure for a perfect bore. If the shop didn't have the pistons there it shouldn't be able to tell you what you can, can not, should or shouldn't do.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
why would any business person, turn down business....where I am from that is the opposite of making money
Go Premium, it builds character!
He had me bring the pistons... This guy is a very well known machinist around here...
My thing is if the block wasnt damaged, and Wiseco makes a stock bore piston, then why would it be a problem to hone the cylinders and install the new stock bore pistons?? The engine has 55,000 miles and has had synthetic oil run through it since the first oil change.
Ive honed engines before and not had a problem... But i understand this time ill be running forged pistons and spinning it up to 8,000+ RPMS... But im thinking, if Wiseco says its stock bore.. Im trusting their judgement, and if the cylinder walls arent damaged... Then why not?? Save the bore for another time
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I wouldint do a at home hone... if not perfectly true you can have ring leakage issues and burn oil. Its just me but i would have them hone it if they didnt want to bore it.
I honed the audi i rebuilt and it had 175PSI in all cylinders just after 50 miles of driving....
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No cylinder are perfect once the engine ran. Have it bore nice and clean and you'll know that you did the right thing. Putting new pistons in stock bore on a used engine is dumb. Even if the machine shop say it's fine.
I would go elsewhere.
The machine shop I worked/do business with bore the cylinder when they exceed 0.002" over.
Wiseco can sell stock pistons for sleeved blocks with new stock size sleeves.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
right, boring the cylinder will give you a nice clean slate, sounds like the guy doesnt know whats hes talking about. well known or not.
not one thing said here so far matters in any way to making a decision on whether to bore the block or not.
Post your bore measurements as they are now after the honing....
#1= x.xxxx"
#2= x.xxxx"
#3= x.xxxx"
#4= x.xxxx"
Also please post those measurements 4 times, each time taken at a different location in the bore (i.e. up high in the bore, down low in the bore, parallel to the crankshaft, perindicular to the crankshaft).
Then post the diameter of the pistons you intend to put in those holes...
#1= x.xxxx"
#2= x.xxxx"
#3= x.xxxx"
#4= x.xxxx"
Then we have something thats worth making the decision on which way to go.
Any machine shop that tells you what needs to be done based on how it "looks" should never be in the machine shop business in the 1st place.
If you cannot give actual measurements, find another machine shop and then have it bored and use your current (+.020) pistons.
sig not found
stupid question but... i throught there were sleeves inside our cylinders that we could pull out, and just slip in ones that would fit the .020 overbore.. no?
I decided tonight to find another machine shop tomorrow... But as for the measurments i would get em but my micrometer is at a friends house.
Basically i was thinking about how i plan to rev this thing close to 9,000 RPMS... so everything better be right
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Not to be rude.. But maybe you should follow up on my other posts.
Oh, and care to show me the "harmonic" balancer on the stock pully? Thats right, there is none
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Heres the mod list since you know everything
Ferrea springs w/ titanium retainers
Ferrea Valves
Stage 3 cams
Wiseco 8.9:1 pistons
Eagle Rods
Cometic Head gasket
ARP head studs
All new bearings/seals
Maybe you should read up before you question someones actions or give advice
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Oh and HP tuners
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JimmyZ wrote:Ben Brown wrote:ill be running forged pistons and spinning it up to 8,000+ RPMS
Ben Brown wrote:Basically i was thinking about how i plan to rev this thing close to 9,000 RPMS... so everything better be right
Not to be rude, but in your next post, will you be winding to 10K RPM?
If you are planning on rolling your engine to Honda or F1 type levels, then you better think a bit more about your bottom end and stroke length than about your bore diameter. Your most important consideration is piston speed. If you are staying at the stock stroke length, you are going to need significantly stronger rods, main bearings and rod bearings.
You're also going to have to shed that underdrive pulley, as the RK unit doesn't have the harmonic balancer on it that GM's *stock* design actually depends on. At the stratospheric RPM levels you claim to want, you'll be in trouble witout some kind of proper damping or *extremely* precision balancing. If a shop would turn away a .020" overbore on an otherwise healthy engine, I wouldn't consider them capable of "extremely precision balancing". I'd barely trust them to do a 3-angle valve job.
Then, at those RPM levels, you're going to have to shore up your valvetrain. The stock tappets will begin to float in the area of 7500-8000rpm. That means means major compression innefficiency. Not long after 8000rpm (if you make it that far with floating tappets) you'll start to see the stock valve springs start to float your valves. Open valves on compression = bad.
I understand what you're after, and it's entirely possible with an Ecotec motor. It just sounds to me like you need to do considerably more prep work, upgrades and research before you get there.
Sorry if i seemed a lil pissed in my initial responce to this post... I mean, i was.
But i understand you werent trying to come off the way that i took it. Depending on when power drops off i will be setting my redline anywhere from 8,500 - 9,000 RPMS, this engine is beeing completely built, the only stock parts that remain are the block, crank, and cylinder head. After speaking with Aaron from TTR, i am comfortable with 9,000 RPMs. Plus i am now keeping the vortech supercharger on there, and the only way ill make BIG HP numbers is by revving the piss out of it, so cams that are designed for 8,000 RPMS, plus a supercharger that makes 7psi at 6,500 RPMS... And i shoul dhave a decent setup
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does hptuners allow for revving to 9000 i thought it was a little less or has something changed
JimmyZ is right. You want to rev 9k but yet you don't know what to do with a shop that doesn't want to work on your engine. You want to go back with stock size pistons without knowing the mesurement Todd ask you. I'll tell you right away that it's harder that just putting parts in the engine and then rev it at 9k. You're going for the big league now but yet can't figure a little problem with the machine shop.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
If the machinist has been around for a while, and if he's a decent guy, he might be absolutely right in saying "don't bore the block." See, if he wasn't told "I'm building an all out engine and I want a fresh bore" then he might be looking at this little 4 cyl and thinking "stock rebuild." Or he might be looking at someone who bought oversize pistons without checking the block and thinking "I'm not getting involved with this kid, he might be dangerous." Dunno, but I don't think it's fair to knock the machine shop without knowing the whole story. Sometimes when a guys been in business for enough years, he actually begins to feel guilty for charging for work he wouldn't do to his own engine.
Measurement is key. Follow Protomec's advice. Measure the bore in several places (usually .020" to .060" below deck surface is a good place to check) or find another machine shop and discuss what you want and why. Maybe even go back to the first guy and talk to him some more. It may turn out that he's got a clue or two. But chances are if you find a machine shop with lots of new expensive tools, they'll be more than willing to help you find ways to spend your money.
Boring a good running engine without using a deck plate won't get you a "round" cylinder. The first time you bolt a cylinder head on the block you pull the cylinder walls out of round. So now you want a rebuilder who has or will use a deck plate for your engine or else you're losing potential ring seal. Ring seal, btw, is measured with a leakdown tool. If you're trying to use cranking compression then you probably won't notice any loss until it's a large one.
A used bore can be great for an engine. If the bore isn't too far out of spec for the piston, the "seasoned" bore costs less hp than a new bore. Even GM says this practice is acceptable for both production and competition engines.
Just a few random thoughts.
-->Slow
He knows my plans for the engine.
And ill be locating a different machine shop today.
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