Some of you may remember me from way back in the day. I kind of took a break from the whole car thing. Well now I got myself some money and I'm back in school for Auto Engineering, final semester. And one of my classes is "Student Project". Still having a little bit of money left, I've decided to build myself a Turbo System. My school has probably all the required facilities except for some application specific machines to be able to get this done.
So far from my searching now that I've come back to JBO, I've found that JGS (
http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html ) seems to be a pretty good place for a manifold. I'm still unsure on what style of turbo, but i'm leaning towards a Garrett T3. Seems to be the most common. I'm planning on running barely any boost at first (4-5psi) because i'm not doing any other work to the engine other then some minor fuel mods (Cartech Adjustable FMU most likely) I'm also leaning more towards an Internal Wastegate, just for ease of install and simple exhaust plumbing.
So now, the questions.
ATP Turbo seems to be a nice site to get various flanges, wastegates and other things. Are the Turbos good from there as well? Is there a site where I can find Compressor maps to see which Turbo would best suit my application?
Water Cooling... Is it worth running coolant lines to the turbo? Do most turbos even support this?
I'm just kind of sketchy on what specific parts, flanges, and other things I need to buy, and what I'd need to custom make. So many different names, styles, and all those kinds of things... overwhelming.
Any comments or help is appreciated. It's good to be back
Club Vantage ::
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Listening...
2010 Subaru Impreza WRX Limited
1999 Cavalier Z24 Supercharged
1999 Grand AM SE (Beater Car)
1997 GMC Sierra
2007 Honda CBR 600RR
2005 Honda TRX450R
Ironman wrote:Some of you may remember me from way back in the day. I kind of took a break from the whole car thing. Well now I got myself some money and I'm back in school for Auto Engineering, final semester. And one of my classes is "Student Project". Still having a little bit of money left, I've decided to build myself a Turbo System. My school has probably all the required facilities except for some application specific machines to be able to get this done.
you would only need machines if you are doing things like overboring the engine and/or porting your head or something ?? i installed my custom kit on the driveway of my best friends house...
Ironman wrote:So far from my searching now that I've come back to JBO, I've found that JGS ( http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html ) seems to be a pretty good place for a manifold. I'm still unsure on what style of turbo, but i'm leaning towards a Garrett T3. Seems to be the most common. I'm planning on running barely any boost at first (4-5psi) because i'm not doing any other work to the engine other then some minor fuel mods (Cartech Adjustable FMU most likely) I'm also leaning more towards an Internal Wastegate, just for ease of install and simple exhaust plumbing.
if you wanna make your own manifold thats a great site, exploited and other companys make your manifold though... might be easier...
im pretty sure your stock long block can support more then 4-5 psi...
additional fuel mods you should consider include a fuel pump because of the fmu, injectors FOR SURE, afpr (adjustable fuel pressure regulator)
Ironman wrote:ATP Turbo seems to be a nice site to get various flanges, wastegates and other things. Are the Turbos good from there as well? Is there a site where I can find Compressor maps to see which Turbo would best suit my application?
atp is the awesome... pricey, but they have almost everything.... i bought all my stuff from kineticmotorsport.com, they have very quality parts and are a direct vendor of garrett... i have a 60trim from them, absolutely no problems, and i wouldnt get a turbo anywhere else now cause im happy with their customer service and products.
Ironman wrote:Water Cooling... Is it worth running coolant lines to the turbo? Do most turbos even support this?
usually only dual ball bearing turbos have water cooling in addition to the oil cooling.... dual ball bearing costs a lot, but they spool up faster, i dont think you should worry about it until later on in the project, baby steps...
Ironman wrote:I'm just kind of sketchy on what specific parts, flanges, and other things I need to buy, and what I'd need to custom make. So many different names, styles, and all those kinds of things... overwhelming.
all you need is a manifold with a t3/t4 flange, a internal gated turbo with a t3/t4 flange, custom exhuast and charge pipes, sensors, oil lines, fuel mods, and you would be set to go
good luck.
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Acer wrote:Ironman wrote:Some of you may remember me from way back in the day. I kind of took a break from the whole car thing. Well now I got myself some money and I'm back in school for Auto Engineering, final semester. And one of my classes is "Student Project". Still having a little bit of money left, I've decided to build myself a Turbo System. My school has probably all the required facilities except for some application specific machines to be able to get this done.
you would only need machines if you are doing things like overboring the engine and/or porting your head or something ?? i installed my custom kit on the driveway of my best friends house...
I was more referring to mandrel benders, or any kind of machine equipment that isn't applications specific, such as a boring bar, planer, and stuff like that.
Acer wrote:Ironman wrote:So far from my searching now that I've come back to JBO, I've found that JGS ( http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html ) seems to be a pretty good place for a manifold. I'm still unsure on what style of turbo, but i'm leaning towards a Garrett T3. Seems to be the most common. I'm planning on running barely any boost at first (4-5psi) because i'm not doing any other work to the engine other then some minor fuel mods (Cartech Adjustable FMU most likely) I'm also leaning more towards an Internal Wastegate, just for ease of install and simple exhaust plumbing.
if you wanna make your own manifold thats a great site, exploited and other companys make your manifold though... might be easier...
im pretty sure your stock long block can support more then 4-5 psi...
additional fuel mods you should consider include a fuel pump because of the fmu, injectors FOR SURE, afpr (adjustable fuel pressure regulator)
I've been trying to search for Exploited, and can't find their website, have they gone out of business? Their website domain seems to be expired. I know the stock longblock can support more then that, it's fuel that i'm worried about, since i'm not doing much to the fuel system, I don't want to lean it out. I still need to do alot of calculating for the fuel system.
Acer wrote:Ironman wrote:ATP Turbo seems to be a nice site to get various flanges, wastegates and other things. Are the Turbos good from there as well? Is there a site where I can find Compressor maps to see which Turbo would best suit my application?
atp is the awesome... pricey, but they have almost everything.... i bought all my stuff from kineticmotorsport.com, they have very quality parts and are a direct vendor of garrett... i have a 60trim from them, absolutely no problems, and i wouldnt get a turbo anywhere else now cause im happy with their customer service and products.
NICE site! They offer Canadian prices too! Thank you!
Acer wrote:Ironman wrote:Water Cooling... Is it worth running coolant lines to the turbo? Do most turbos even support this?
usually only dual ball bearing turbos have water cooling in addition to the oil cooling.... dual ball bearing costs a lot, but they spool up faster, i dont think you should worry about it until later on in the project, baby steps...
So oil-cooled it is.
I'll update more on the project as I can, right now i'm looking at my options. T3 or T3/T4 is what it's looking like, still need to do some calculations for trims. Anyone know where I can find a database of compressor maps?
Club Vantage ::
importfighter.ca :: RIP Trux0r...
mandrel benders are cool! if you have one, you should have sick piping
i had to buy bends and cut to fit...
the fuel system is very important... bigger injectors/a way to control them/and a wideband are like minimum
exploited i think went out of business, i recently got one from the classifieds a few weeks back, but i need it for my friends jbody that we are turboing
t3/t4 is a flange type.
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Alright guys i'm back with a few more questions.
I'm looking for a Turbo Manifold that's ready to go. In my searching every single previously mentioned site is out of business, or their site doesn't work.
Exploited, gone.
CNFX, gone.
Jtuners, gone.
Can you even get a Turbo Manifold for the 2.4 anymore?!
Club Vantage ::
importfighter.ca :: RIP Trux0r...
Parts are ordered.
Went with a Garrett Super 60.
Compressor Trim: 60, A/R: 0.42
Turbine Trim: 68, A/R: 0.48
BEGi FMU, Precision FMIC, and other various flanges and crap like that. I went with what I guess is known as the "Canadian Manifold" from happythoughts47 on ebay. Looks pretty good, and it looks like the people that have his manifold on JBO are relatively happy with it.
Getting really pumped... Can't wait to get these parts on the car and sized up so I can measure for piping... WOOO!
Pictures coming when I receive the stuff!
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i dont want to thread jack but how does a wastegate and a boost controller work? i know how each individual one works but how do they work together? im new at this like ironman (sorry dude its just that im confused about it maybe we'll both learn something) but i have my turbo parts on the way too. now i understand that the wastegate doesnt let you build up psi, meaning if you a 9 psi spring it wont let you build up more than that, and i understand that a boost controller controls boost, but if you have a boost controller do you need the wastegate?, isnt the wastegate some sort of boost controller too? how does the controller control boost? this is not a stupid question its a newb question!!haha. but any info will help. thanks. i have searched and yes it tells me what they each do but i need it in dummy terms.
The boost controller forces the wastegate down until the boostcontroller reaches the desired limit....then lets the wastegate go to release excess pressure
you scratch my ride IMA EAT YO CHILDREN
so if u have a 9 psi spring and u set the boost controller to 15psi......the wastegate is taken over by the controller at 9 psi until 15 psi then released....
you scratch my ride IMA EAT YO CHILDREN
there is a vacuum line running to your wastegate... when that line feeds it the same amount of boost pressure as the spring inside can sustain, then the wastegate opens up completely, preventing you from building anymore boost.... a boost controller manipulates the amount of air that reaches the boost controller so that you can run more boost before it completely opens up. this is why people can poke a hole in the vacuum line and run more boost, the less air that reaches the wastegate from that vacuum line the more boost you run. this is also why if that line blows off, you will overboost
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
oooooohhhh very good info. so then it doesnt matter what spring you have in there as long as you have a boost controller and all lines are secure. i thought you had to get a "high psi spring on the wastegate" and a boost controller to minimize the psi so you wouldnt blow up your car but didnt know you could increase it past the psi on the wastegate. thanks alot guys i really appreciate it.
only reason to get a higher spring is cause the further from the spring you go the less stable the boost will hold, one bad thing about a higher spring is that you cant go any lower then the spring, so if you put a 10 psi spring in there you can only run 10psi+, you cant run a boost controller to run less then the spring
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
i wanna build a 250-300 hp sleeper out of my 2002 2200 cavalier whats EVERYTHING that i will need?
You should also take into consideration that most internal wastegates are adjustable to a point by altering the length of the wastegate arm.
Shawn: Its possible with a 2200, but your going to want forged rods and pistons at the very least, The only other thing to possibly worry about is the crank, check with other turboed 2200 owners and see if it can take the boost levels you want. A 16G turbo would probably be ok for the 250HP range. Unfortunately I don't know anything about the 2200 block so I can't say if its safe to run upwards of 300HP on it. An intercooler should also be on the list. Then supporting fuel mods like larger injectors and FMU(or Hp tuners).
Hopefully someone with more info will chime in. Also reccomended you starta new thread instead of jacking this one.
-Chris
The package from Kinetic Motorsport came in today. Very impressed. Good packaging. You won't see the packaging in the pics, because I took it all out. The turbo didn't come with a Wastegate swing valve or an actuator, I'm currently in communication with Clay from Kinetic to solve this. I sent him an email prior to ordering asking if it came with the swing valve and he said it did. I'll keep you guys up to date on that, but so far... two thumbs up for Kinetic Motorsport. We'll see how they handle my wastegate situation. Still waiting for the Gauges from Summit, and the manifold from happythoughts.
The package from Kinetic consisted of a BEGi FMU, FMIC, Garrett Super60 turbo, an oil feed line, 4-bolt T3 Exhaust Flange with gasket, O2 sensor bung, and an oil drain flange.
Anyways, less talk, more pics, so here we go!
Club Vantage ::
importfighter.ca :: RIP Trux0r...
clays a cool guy! congrats on the parts man! good luck
|Forged 8.9:1 Wiseco Pistons|Forged Eagle Rods|HPTuners|60trim|Tial Wastegate|
|Precision Intercooler|2.5" Exhaust|2.5" Charge Pipes|630CC Mototron Injectors|
|Stock: Fuel Pump, Transmission, Manifold, TB, Head, Head Gasket, Ignition, Suspension...|
Acer wrote:clays a cool guy! congrats on the parts man! good luck
Takes forever to answer his email... but other then that, pretty cool. He hasn't gotten back to me about the wastegate yet.
Club Vantage ::
importfighter.ca :: RIP Trux0r...
Well, Clay just got back to me and said he'd send the wastegate actuator out ASAP. Handled very well. I just hope he sends the swing valve as well as the actuator, cause I don't have either. Two thumbs up for sure.
The order from Summit Racing came today. Fuel Pressure and Boost gauge. No pics cause it's nothing fancy. I can't find my A/F ratio gauge, so I might have to pick up another one. They're cheap anyways.
Club Vantage ::
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Ironman wrote: I can't find my A/F ratio gauge, so I might have to pick up another one. They're cheap anyways.
Better off going with a wideband A/F gauge kit so you can tune with more accuracy.
Check out my Part Out List!! Great Prices !!
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/detail/52925/
Black Ops Ecotec wrote:Ironman wrote: I can't find my A/F ratio gauge, so I might have to pick up another one. They're cheap anyways.
Better off going with a wideband A/F gauge kit so you can tune with more accuracy.
I know... But I have access to a wideband and a dyno at the school for tuning purposes. Don't really have the money for a standalone wideband kit
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The Manifold came in today. I'll be taking pictures shortly. I can break out the grinding wheel and smooth out the exhaust ports a bit, because they're a little rough. I just don't want to remove too much material. We'll see what my teacher suggests. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm welcome.
Also brought the car out of storage a few days ago. Mmm... she purrs just like I remember her... I missed driving her
Started wiring up the boost gauge and the electrical source and ground, as well as the signal wire for the o2 sensor.
Pictures of the manifold going up as soon as I find my damn digicam cable.
Club Vantage ::
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