Didnt really know where to post this but figured it dealt with boost....
I have a ported n polished head im putting on my car and when i do it i wanna put a good head gasket on....was looking at the cometic one
Question---what thickness should i put on since im n/a right now but plan on boosting later on....could i get away with putting the n/a gasket on and run more compression and still boost with no worries later or should i put one on that would lower compression and if i did this how much would it hurt me as far as power wise for right now until i can get turbo put on????
tried finding something on here that would help me out with my question but came up with nothing so if someone out there has good advice i will take it, thanks.
if you plan on boosting, you will likely want a thicker head gasket, not to change static compression ratio SCR, but rather to ensure that you piston to head clearance is a optimal around about 0.035-0.040.... Pending on your piston/rod combo you could have piston protrusion out of the head up to 0.010" in some cases. This is noraml, but you need to take that into account when selecting a headgasket thickness...
For example, if you have a 0.010" protrusion and run a 0.030 (NA cometic) gasket you will have a clearance of 0.020" which (from experience) the pistons and head will just kiss @ 5400 rpm.
If you are using wiseco pistons, the 10:1 domed I believe are recessed 0.020-0.030" and the 9:1 are protruding about 0.008" (on my 2.4 LD9 with stock length rods).... I personally went with a thicker head gasket 0.074" (boosted cometic MLS) and with 0.008" protrusion, I am way above the optimal 0.030-0.040" piston to head clearance... I am set at 0.074 (-) 0.008" (=) 0.066" so keep in mind with some rod stretch and expansioin of at LEAST 0.022" on my exact engine, that above 5400rpm I run 0.044" clearance and tighter as RPM increase. Quench is most effective at 0.030-0.040" as stated before, and I am in that range above 5400RPM.. so those are some things you can take into account.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
Whatever size you choose give me a shout and I'll hook you up with a good price.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
ge_forcez22 wrote:Quench is most effective at 0.030-0.040" as stated before, and I am in that range above 5400RPM.. so those are some things you can take into account.
Do we have to get into this again? Quench is most effective @ 0" clearance. The only reason it is suggested to use .040" is to allow for the rod stretch you mentioned. So leave .030-.040" STATIC clearance. This way, when your rods have stretched at that 5400 rpm, you have a more efficient .010-.020" quench, and you should be safe to somewhere around 8000 rpm.
I've heard figures as high as 10hp for every .010" you cut off your quench distance (on a quench-style head, of course).
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
Quote:
Do we have to get into this again?
nope... 'we' don't
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
stevefire wrote:do they make an MLS for the pre '98 2.2 OHV yet?
I guess there'd be a big thread when hell freezes over.
You can use a 2200 gasket, and add a hole for the opposing coolant passage. Or you can get a rubber-coated copper gasket from (I believe) FlatOut.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
OHV notec wrote:You can use a 2200 gasket, and add a hole for the opposing coolant passage. Or you can get a rubber-coated copper gasket from (I believe) FlatOut.
are you serious?
how is the coolant hole going to seal itself? Have you done this?
Do I need to oring the head/block with a rubber coated copper gasket?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789194
that would be awesome if I could use a 2200 MLS HG, I would have ordered one a year ago!
anyone have a link to FlatOut? I googled it and can only find xbox games, etc.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789194
www.flatoutgroup.com/gaskets/gaskets.asp
There is no need for an o-ring with the rubber coating.
I have a .062" plain SCE copper if you're interested.
The guy in the racing forum with the 13sec (or something like that) purple 2nd gen said he was using the 2200 gasket with an extra hole. I checked the gasket in my garage and Cometic doesn't put any special sealing features around the coolant passages, they are just holes, so adding another hole should not be a problem.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
I don't have experience with the 2.2 gaskets, but the 2.4 LD9 gasket has no special "features" around any of the passages, just a prefectly drilled hole compressed between a perfectly flat head/block combo...
:cheers
-Garrett
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
Me.
I believe it's just over $100 but I'll call tomorrow if I get some free time.
I used to race cars, now I race myself.
5K PB: 24:50
10K PB: 54:26
Team Vision Racing (aka hypsy) wrote:Me.
I believe it's just over $100 but I'll call tomorrow if I get some free time.
price should depend on thickness...
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
looked on your site ryne and the 2200 wasn't listed.
I dont think I need one for boost, as I am using a stock replacement HG on their now anyway. But perhaps you can convince me otherwise.
What would shipping be like up to Canada? You do ship to Canada right?
IIRC shouldn't it be around $86 for the .030 and $108 for the .080?
thanks
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/789194
Steve, what is your piston-deck height?
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
stevefire wrote:IIRC we were somewhere around .020 - .025"? does that sound about right? It was a while ago when we built it 
8:1 c/r
That's what Jack said stock was (.024" below deck), so that's probably right. There is a large quench area on our head, so take advantage with a very thin gasket. For tight-fitting pistons, you should be okay down to no head gasket (0" thickness), so get the thinnest possible (might want to check valve clearance however).
Lowering your quench distance will prevent detonation better than lowering your compression when it comes to the headgasket.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
just a word of advice, do not go tighter than 0.022".. they will touch, with heat and stretch.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
ge_forcez22 wrote:just a word of advice, do not go tighter than 0.022".. they will touch, with heat and stretch.
Unless he's planning on shaving the block, it would be impossible for him to go lower than .022", so I don't think you need to worry. Also, just because that's what you measured for stretch doesn't mean he'll see the same...there are too many variables.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
well he said 0.024", and at 0.022, and 0.024 you will hit for sure. and if you are hitting at a lower rpm it would be safe to say that 0.026-0.028 would hit too. But you are right in saying just because I did it, it will not always happen. But I did email eagle and wiseco, and they both returned and said, "don't run tighter than 0.035" or you WILL hit." I understand you don't believe me and that is fine with me, but FFS let others know the truth and stop being a dick about it. if PROOF and the company making the product stating it isn't enough, maybe you should go out and make some rods and pistons, becuase you obviously know more than them, and know better than my personal proof.
Not to be an @$$, but d@mn, that is what happens, it's proven, accept it.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
wheres a good place to get the head gasket for a good price????
ge_forcez22 wrote:well he said 0.024", and at 0.022, and 0.024 you will hit for sure. and if you are hitting at a lower rpm it would be safe to say that 0.026-0.028 would hit too. But you are right in saying just because I did it, it will not always happen. But I did email eagle and wiseco, and they both returned and said, "don't run tighter than 0.035" or you WILL hit." I understand you don't believe me and that is fine with me, but FFS let others know the truth and stop being a dick about it. if PROOF and the company making the product stating it isn't enough, maybe you should go out and make some rods and pistons, becuase you obviously know more than them, and know better than my personal proof.
Not to be an @$$, but d@mn, that is what happens, it's proven, accept it.
Way to get offended. I've heard of people running .030" on STOCK rods and pistons, and down to .025" on aftermarket (at much higher RPM as well), so the Eagle and Weisco quote can be taken with a grain of salt, and nothing has been "proven" as you say. The biggest factor as to whether you hit on low quench is the piston-bore clearance and max rpm, which has yet to be specified. My motor is currently set to run .034" on a loose piston fit but stock shiftpoints, so we'll see what happens...
Also, just to screw with you, you said "don't go closer than .022", which would be different than the .035" you are now preaching.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
I am saying don't go closer than 0.022" because that is what I ran and it did not work. Eagle and wiseco both said don't run closer than 0.035" learn to read.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
oh and to be clear, I am running 0.004" clearance, rock was not an issue, front to back is EXACTLY the same, (although does come into play) happened at 5400 rpm, I have pictures to prove it. I am not saying it can't be done. but on a 2.4 LD9 2000 engine block with eagle rods, and wiseco pistons, I would highly disadvise it, becuase it CLEARLY doesn't work in my case, if anyone else wants to try it, you seems to know better than experience, so go ahead, misinform away.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
