Hi i was curious to know if it is safe to run 4-5psi boost w/ just a adjustable FPR ? and then once I have the money for HPT or something like that I'll up the boost ?
'99 2.2 OHV w/3spd auto (work in progress)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2322134
It was done for years, when that was all that was available. Having said that, there are many posts, "I blew this" "why is smoke coming from" "WTF happened" etc etc.
The riser is 100-150 (begi 2025), and a new pump is about 100... you are almost half way for the basic HPT, I say wait it out.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
no I didn't mean have a rising rate FPR i just ment an adjustable FPR set the fuel pressure up say 10 psi or so more than stock and run only 5psi of boost for a while or a 1:1 or 2:1 rising rate maybe but I don't plan on running much boost to start with!!! then after I have the money I'll probly go full standalone b/c HPT imo isn't really worth it b/c your tuning alpha-n on a boosted engine ?no accuracy what a waste ? yeah I know people on here have had great luck but I prefer a standalone so I can do Speed density and its more invovled having to start from scratch.
'99 2.2 OHV w/3spd auto (work in progress)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2322134
it is is not alpha-N on 2000-2002 with GM s/c, aside from that I agree that a full standalone is worth it.
for someone with no knowledge about boost, that statement seems much more educated than I would expect.. what gives??
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
I know how boost / turbos / s/c's work and I understand that you have to have the fuel to support it I was just curious if I increased my overall fuel pressure by say 10psi in the fuel rail if the extra volume from the pressure increase would be enough or if our injectors flow rate is so small that 10psi or so would not make much of a difference?? ( increased fuel pressure make the injector flow more?)
I only plan to run 4-5 psi until I have more $$$ but I'm getting ready for college and don't have the $ for my PCM that I want thats including injectors and all the other stuff I was just curious if i could use an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to increase the overall rail pressure thus increasing the flow rate for a few months then I'll have the money for my PCM and I will increase the boost and have higher flow injectors ? so is it possible with a small amount of boost (4-5psi) to use an AFPR to up my fuel pressure for a while and if it is how high would my fuel pressure have to increase ? is there a formula I can use to calculate how much pressure I need to get the flow rate I want ? and just checking but J-body stock injectors for a 2.2 ohv are 210cc/min ??
'99 2.2 OHV w/3spd auto (work in progress)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2322134
Want you are talking about is a FMU, or that is want you should be talking about... just raising FP across the board will cause your car to run rich all the time and that is not a good idea and it is not cheap, lol.
You need something like a Begi 2025 adjustable FMU, what it does is increase FP with boost, so lets say 6:1 (6psi FP for every 1 psi boost)
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
Bob Martin wrote:
so is it possible with a small amount of boost (4-5psi) to use an AFPR to up my fuel pressure for a while and if it is how high would my fuel pressure have to increase ?
Shifted wrote:No, that is not safe.
It is NOT safe to run ANY boost WITHOUT upgrading the injectors and at the very least an FMU (RRFPR).
All the fuel formula's you'd need are in the New Boost FAQ, and on top of that, 2.2L injectors are 199cc, not 210.
4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!
http://www.j-body.org/classifieds/engine/44945/
check that out and make an offer, the price is really good for the HPT.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
Ok I guess I'll just hold out on finishing my turbo until I get my PCM, thanks for the help g_forcez22 and Shifted sorry I'm not too interested in HPT plus I still don't have any $$$ at the current time but I'll be going with a standalone PCM once I get the money I'll post up to let you know but It will be a few months!!!! cant even buy the FMU just thought I could use an FPR b/c I was going to get one from my friend for helping him with some stuff but I guess my project turbo is delayed again oh well it'll be even better once I get it !!! thanks for the help
'99 2.2 OHV w/3spd auto (work in progress)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2322134
figure I wouldn't waste another post just keep this one!
ge_forcez22 and shifted:
OK I want to talk to you guys I think that I can use HPT I don't like the idea of alpha-n and a turbo but what the heck its well supported (also don't like not having realtime tuning) but do like not having to hack up my wiring and start tuning from scratch!!!
so how hard is it to tune my 2.2 OHV 3spd auto if I plan on running 10 psi, intercooled, w/ 36# injectors and i believe thats it! I figured you guys are the one to talk to about using HPT so what else do I need??( it will be a while before I get HPT just to let you know I'm still getting the injectors and some various turbo parts! one piece at a time lol!)
'99 2.2 OHV w/3spd auto (work in progress)
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2322134
if you plan on running that 2.2 OHV to 220-230whp you will be pushing a rod through the bottom end... but that aside Alpha-N is an acceptable way to tune for something like a supercharger because the way boost in controlled. Turbo chargers deliver the air charge a little more "violently" if I may, but it is still predictable. It is not the best way to go, even with my 2000 GM s/c tune reprogrammed, HPT is not the BEST way to go, but it is very acceptable and can run reliably.
you can safely tune for boost using Alpha-N, but of course you will need a dyno, a wideband, good injectors, 2 bar map, good fuel pump, and someone with real world experience. Shifted will add some info that I missed, as he has WAY more knowledge about tuning than myself.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
I've been doing some calculations... at 5 psi of boost you NEED at the bare
minimum of 310cc injectors(would be above safe injector duty cycle). This may seem pretty extreme... but it's true. The injectors that come with the 2.2 ohv are 199cc like for others, 2.4TC 250cc, 2.3LGO 310cc, 2.3 w41 330cc.
The 2.3 w41 has n/a power of 195hp... And a 2.2 with 5psi of boost (about 170hp) you are already using as much fuel as the 195hp engine does.
I'm not too experienced myself... but I’m sure using 199 injectors and upping the fuel pressure, out-flowing the rated size of the injectors, is a bad thing.
If you want, you can grab injectors that are higher than you plan on using. Example: 600cc injectors when you only need 440cc. I'm pretty sure HPTuners can handle injector constants up to 1000cc... But I’m not really sure. But it's whatever you can get your hands on at a good price.
List above, you need all of that... minus a 2bar MAP.
____________________________
Dracula called, and he's coming tonight!
The 2.3 had 2 diferent injectors. Lo(Ld2) had 27lbs. Lgo and W41 had 32lbs injectors. Also, the W41 never had 195hp. It had 190 in 91 and 92. 185 in 93.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
ge_forcez22 wrote:if you plan on running that 2.2 OHV to 220-230whp you will be pushing a rod through the bottom end...
If you'd like to show me one case of this on a well-tuned motor, I'd love to see it. However, I can show you multiple examples of 240+whp. Please stop spouting out false info about the LN2.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
And for a practical example of what's possible, I determined that I could peak boost at 6 using stock injectors, but I had to quickly drop boost pressure as rpm increased and the injectors ran out of time to deliver fuel. The 99 injectors may work with a greater peak fuel pressure than my 94's, check go.delphi.com to see if there's a listing for your injectors.
Keep in mind that I was able to scale back timing with my OBDI ecm, where you will not unless you have HPT or an external timing control device. Without this you will need to run evenmore fuel under boost in order to keep the detonation gremlins away.
I kind of like seeing these guys who think the LN2 can't make serious power. It makes it so much easier to stay under the radar.
-->Slow
OHV notec wrote:ge_forcez22 wrote:if you plan on running that 2.2 OHV to 220-230whp you will be pushing a rod through the bottom end...
If you'd like to show me one case of this on a well-tuned motor, I'd love to see it. However, I can show you multiple examples of 240+whp. Please stop spouting out false info about the LN2.
Blow me, you can run more for sure, but if you have issues with me, PM me and we can talk there, I am sick of your @!#$ ego.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, March 18, 2007 8:14 AM
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
and his mods:
T3 Garrett Turbo Charger
30" Front Mount Intercooler
2" Mandrel Bent Charge Pipes
Super Sequential B.O.V
Custom Turbo Header
Custom 2.5" Downpipe
Holley Adjustable 4:1 FMU
Ford Red Top Injectors (330cc)
Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator
RSM Supercharger Reflash
RSM 62mm Throttle Body
RSM Ported Intake Manifold
RSM Lightened Crank Pulley
Custom Oil Dipstick Tube
Custom Fiero Screw-in IAT sensor
Custom 4 wire Primary o2 sensor
10.2mm Performance Wires
Solid Engine Mounts
Custom 3" Mandrel Bent Downpipe back Exhaust System With Side Exit, Vibrant 3" Hi-flow Cat
KYB Struts, with KYB Lowering Springs
Rear Strut Bar, Front Sturt Bar
Autometer Boost, Volts Guages
AEM Wideband O2 Sensor
Turbosmart Gated Manual Boost Controller
Full 8 Point Custom Engine Grounding Kit
Optima Red Top battery Relocated to the trunk
MOMO T-Frame Light weight racing seats
Curb Weight: 2350lbs
Front Pic of the 30" Front mounted Intercooler *
I have been corrected, 230 WHP can be done, likely more... can't be much room for error, and as always ALL turbo cars require a really good tune to ensure reliabilty.
*source -
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/1967146
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:09 AM
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
those are some nice numbers.. I am just taking a guess here, but I am going to assume you leaned it out a little bit to gain the extra HP.. torque didn't show up, but that likely drop from the first sheet??
GOOD NUMBERS MAN.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
ge_forcez22 wrote:OHV notec wrote:ge_forcez22 wrote:if you plan on running that 2.2 OHV to 220-230whp you will be pushing a rod through the bottom end...
If you'd like to show me one case of this on a well-tuned motor, I'd love to see it. However, I can show you multiple examples of 240+whp. Please stop spouting out false info about the LN2.
Blow me, you can run more for sure, but if you have issues with me, PM me and we can talk there, I am sick of your @!#$ ego.
You sure do take offense to anything that comes your way. I would have said the same thing to anyone who made the statement you did. I see you found the other thread, so I guess I don't need to point you there anymore.
fortune cookie say:
better a delay than a disaster.
i didn't take offence at all :shrug
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
my torque numbers on the 186 WHP dyno was 225 WTQ
