So i've been searching through a few of the posts for any information on what i can do to boost my auto cav. I hear that the hahn setup wont work because size of the trans, that and the fact that the website says manual trans only. So my ? is who would you reconmend that i get my parts from for a custom turbo setup? Its hard enough, being from the souther cali area cause everyone
usualy owns a honda or some kind of import, so my options are limited. If anyone from my general area or anyone for that matter has any suggestions please send them my way. Thank's!
The most difficult part about the process would be bending the charge pipes. If there are places around there that do it to Hondas, they should be able to do it to your car as well. I would think they can do everything else too.
You know that actually makes a lot of sense, but I also had concerns about how big of an intercooler I could use. I've seen a majority of the intercoolers are relativly small on j body's. To my understanding a larger intercooler = more boost= more hp right?
David Smith wrote: To my understanding a larger intercooler = more boost= more hp right?
no most people use smaller intercoolers, because most people are boosting on stock motors and have no need to use a big intercooler.. in the terms of intercoolers, there is such thing as too big
David Smith wrote:You know that actually makes a lot of sense, but I also had concerns about how big of an intercooler I could use. I've seen a majority of the intercoolers are relativly small on j body's. To my understanding a larger intercooler = more boost= more hp right?
No
Larger intercooler = larger temperature drop = denser air = more power per psi.
However...
Larger intercooler = larger pressure drop = less power,
These are very general relations, but they should help you understand a little better.
-
"Youth in Asia"...I don't see anything wrong with that.
If you are planning on building something of your own, there are a few people on the site here who have bought a turbo kit from Hahn RaceCraft and adapted it to their auto transmission. If you planned on getting your own pipes bent anyways, it may not be a bad way to go as it already has the rest of the turbosystem tuned and ready.
Street-Legal 2003 Sunfire 10.58 @ 139 MPH
That's exactly the type of answer I was looking for, thanks!...
Quote:
Larger intercooler = larger pressure drop = less power,
so a more effiecent,, better flowing intercooler has more pressure drop?? explain that one for me.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
no a smaller, more efficient, intercooler has LESS pressure drop...
think about it in these terms... if you're going to yell from one side of a room to a person on the other side.
Small room, the other person hears you almost instantly, a large cathedral takes longer and isn't as loud because there is more room (space) for the "sound/air" to travel to...
Simply put.. you cram air into a small enclosure with holes in it, you're going to have almost the same pressure after as you did before...
But if you cram air into a huge freaking hollow area (with more holes [intercooler core] ) then the air is going to fill the space out and more of it is going to be lost through the core.
So in layman's terms, PRESSURE DROP occurs when the air being forced through the intercooler core fills out the enclosure and escapes into the atmosphere as opposed to just getting cooled down and going back into the charge pipes...
not a real difficult process to get, smaller intercooler on smaller setups, bigger intercooler on bigger setups...
most intercooler have a power rating too. like 250-500hp would be an example, if you don't plan on pushing more then 500 that would be great, which for jbodys, is what you're probably going to look for... you don't need to buy a huge ass intercooler rated for 1000hp and slap it on a jbody... that's just ridiculous...
So if you have less holes with higher resistance you will have less pressure drop?? With a larger intercooler or charge pipes you 'MIGHT' have a little more turbo lag but you will have less resistance or "friction loss".
Quote:
Pressure Drop
Another aspect of intercoolers to be considered is pressure drop. The pressure read by a boost gauge is the pressure in the intake manifold. It is not the same as the pressure that the turbocharger itself puts out. To get a fluid, such as air, to flow there must be a difference in pressure from one end to the other. Consider a straw that is sitting on the table. It doesn't having anything moving through it until you pick it up, stick it in your mouth, and change the pressure at one end (either by blowing or sucking). In the same way the turbo outlet pressure is higher than the intake manifold pressure, and will always be higher than the intake pressure, because there must be a pressure difference for the air to move.
The difference in pressure required for a given amount of air to move from turbo to intake manifold is an indication of the hydraulic restriction of the intercooler, the up pipe, and the throttle body. Let's say you are trying to move 255 gram/sec of air through a stock intercooler, up pipe, and throttle body and there is a 4 psi difference that is pushing it along (I'm just making up numbers here). If your boost gauge reads 15 psi, that means the turbo is actually putting up 19 psi. Now you buy a PT-70 and slap on some Champion heads. Now you are moving 450 gm/sec of air. At 15 psi boost in the intake manifold the turbo now has to put up 23 psi, because the pressure drop required to get the higher air flow is now 8 psi instead of the 4 that we had before. More flow with the same equipment means higher pressure drop. So we put on a new front mount intercooler. It has a lower pressure drop, pressure drop is now 4 psi, so the turbo is putting up 19 psi again. Now we add the 65 mm throttle body and the pressure drop is now 3 psi. Then we add the 2.5" up pipe, and it drops to 2.5 psi. Now to make 15 psi boost the turbo only has to put up 17.5 psi. The difference in turbo outlet temperature between 23 psi and 17.5 psi is about 40 deg (assuming a constant efficiency)! So you can see how just by reducing the pressure drop we can lower the temperatures while still running the same amount of boost.
I have seen some misunderstandings regarding intercooler pressure drop and how it relates to heat transfer. For example, one vendor's catalog implies that if you had little or no pressure drop then you would have no heat transfer. This is incorrect. Pressure drop and heat transfer are relatively independent, you can have good heat transfer in an intercooler that has a small pressure drop if it is designed correctly. It is easier to have good heat transfer when there is a larger pressure drop because the fluid's turbulence helps the heat transfer coefficient (U), but I have seen industrial coolers that are designed to have less than 0.2 psi of drop while flowing a heck of a lot more air, so it is certainly feasible.
Pressure drop is important because the higher the turbo discharge pressure is the higher the temperature of the turbo air. When we drop the turbo discharge pressure we also drop the temperature of the air coming out of the turbo. When we do that we also drop the intercooler outlet temperature, although not as much, but hey, every little bit helps. This lower pressure drop is part of the benefit offered by new, bigger front mount intercoolers; by the Duttweiler neck modification to stock location intercoolers; by bigger up pipes; and by bigger throttle bodies. You can also make the turbo work less hard by improving the inlet side to it. K&N air filters, free flowing MAF pipes, removing a screen from the MAF, removing the MAF itself when switching to an aftermarket fuel injection system, the upcoming 3" and 3.5" MAFs from Modern Muscle, these all reduce the pressure drop in the turbo inlet system which makes the compressor work less to produce the same boost which will reduce the turbo discharge temperature (among other, and probably greater, benefits).
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
I was owned, nice work, lol
quick question ...i have a 2.5 inch thick intercooler....rated at 250hp...then i have a intercooler same size just 3 inch thick....which would be better to use....ur whole paragraph thing just confused the hell outta me...lol...im running 5psi on a To4e turbo if that matters...and will be upping it to 8psi when i get dyno tuned
you scratch my ride IMA EAT YO CHILDREN
i'd say go with whatever your intake/charge piping will be...
the thicker the intercooler, the more effiecent it can be, and most likely less restricive. Think of the intercooler as a heat sink, the more there is, the more heat it can absorb.
and not to tell you how to build your setup, but a to4e compressor wheel is a great, but it will be more effiecent (on our 2.4 LD9) around 12-13psi+
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
well im on stock motor.....i dont really think i can go much above 8 without blowing sumtin up
you scratch my ride IMA EAT YO CHILDREN
yah I was kinda thinking might be on a stock motor, boost is boost, and it is always great
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
yea i mean at 5 psi i beat a V8 mustang.....so yea i like this whole boost thing lol...cant wait to see what she pulls on the dyno with a tune and 50 lb injectors on 8 psi....
you scratch my ride IMA EAT YO CHILDREN
Ok another ? I know you can achieve great results boosting a stock motor. I curious though to weather I should upgrade the internals before I boost or does it really matter? I'm lookin to achieve a well balanced and responsive motor, so I'm just basicly trying to get the full potential I can out of my L61
if you wanna start pushing some serious pressure or serious HP, then upgrade internals.. with stock internals it is extremely important to tune it 100% right, the pistons are weaker than aftermarket.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
Sounds good!!, thanks for the help
Hey GE_ForceZ22 what size and brand is the intercooler on your car, and did you have to cut your bumper support to get it to fit? I'm looking at a Vibrant 30 x 9 x 3.25 with 2.5" inlet/outlet.
2000 Z24 5spd header & catback for now.
not sure on the exact size, I went with 8" x 3" x 28-32 IIRC, 2.75" in/outlet, I would personnally not go any taller than my 8", I remember it being pretty tight, but we didn't cut anything. just made some L brackets and welded them on.
HP Tuners | Garrett T3/T04B | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | 650 Injectors | HO Manifold | Addco front/rear | Motor Mounts | HKS SSQV | Spec stage 3 | AEM UEGO Wideband | Team Green LSD | FMIC | 2.3 cams | 2.3 oil pump swap | 280WHP | Now ECOTECED
