I curently have a 2002 cavy with 2.4L and dealer installed GMPP SC kit.
Apart from the kit, and a K&N conical airfilter, everything else is stock.
My car has 94K miles on it, and my SC has developed a bad nose-cone/pulley bearing from a leaking seal. The engine just recently developed a bit of a valve tick as well...
luckily, i just paid the car off a few months back, and been a good driver lately, so my insurance rates just droped a good bit... so i guess timing is right (since my monthly vehicular costs just dropped 90
to put some work into the car and make her better than new.
I could band-aid the SC bearing noises with a replacement nose drive for like $300... but i hear that is a short term fix, and can just cover up more serious issues that stem from a seal leak and worn bearing. And for $500 bucks i can have the SC sent out and remanufactured and get it back good as new with a lifetime warranty.
Which brings me to upgrades... the guys doing the remanufacturing say for like $400 more they will do an "S-Porting" on the SC while they have it... they say it improves just about every aspect of the SC... better efficiency, less resistance, lower temps, more flow/volume, etc.. they say it is like supercharging your supercharger.... Then for like $100 more they will install a smaller pulley, which we all know increases SC speed thus adding boost and again increasing SC output. They claim both of these mods (s-port and pulley) can make an unbelievable difference in performance (of course assuming the rest of the car can handle it)
So that brings me to the next issue... To handle the upgraded SC... i would probably need headers and 2.5" exhaust. They say (based on air-fuel ratios after upgrade) possibly bigger injectors and or fuel control module.
I also have been thinking about doing a Cam upgrade, as it sounds like i may have a cam/lifter problem anyway. I hear the "secret cam" make a great upgrade on SC engines... would love to find one of the HO 2.3 cams, but so far no luck on that.
(my engine is in need of work too, before i can do anything more performance-like on it... so that opens me up to other things as well... like valve jobs, head port/polishing... i may need a whole new engine or head based on what i find out is the actual problem with mine. which i wouldnt mind anyway, the car is in great shape, but with 94k on my engine, i worry every time i punch the gas...)
So this is just all i have heard, and am considering... just wondering what all you suggest... what is worth it, not worth it... what is a "must do" and what isnt quite needed or worth the time/money. Again, i dont have an unlimited budget, just some extra "allowance" i wouldnt mind putting back into the car to keep her (and me) happy.
my poor baby is sick... someone help me...
(2.4L engine in my cavy is ticking bad... need to make it stop)
My recommendation-
Stiegemeier! They can perform the rebuild, port, and polish. Amazing work! A few guys on here can attest to it. Not too sure on pricing, I recall it being up there, but you do indeed get what you pay for.
Smaller pulley, exhaust, and for the M45 I say alcohol injection is a must especially when going smaller with the pulley size.
alcohol injection? really? not too familiar with that.... care to explain?
and i was told to go to PSE. they are a certified "remanufacturer" prices seems better than just about anyone i have seen, and they warranty their remanufactured products for life. I talked to them and they guy was SUPER knowledgable, and very good to work with.
as i said i think it was $550 for a full reman of my SC (tear it all apart, replace every wear item regardless of need, inspect all mechanical and non-wear companonets, and all parts used are exact OEM replacements or upgraded parts, all bearings and seals used are supposedly higher grade than OEM) $400 for the porting, $100-150 for a pulley... and everything is covered for life. They say in the 14years they have been around, they have never had a SC come back to them due to wear or failure (of course i am sure they had a few idiots blow them up for other unusual reasons, every village has its idiot)
most places want $300 for a pulley alone, $500-$800 for just a cleaning, inspection and new bearings and seals where needed, and call it a rebuild. (that is more of a freshen-up in my mind)
I dont know anything about steigmeier, but i would be happy to feel them out. got any links numbers or anything?
i felt very comfy with PSE... but willing to shop around if you say your guys are good.
so tell me more about this alch. injection...
my poor baby is sick... someone help me...
(2.4L engine in my cavy is ticking bad... need to make it stop)
PSE could very well be awesome, honestly I'm not familiar with them but yes, the pricing indeed sounds very nice.
Here's a
link for Stiegemeier.
As for the alcohol injection, many different companies make a kit. Most of them physically are the same though. You have a tank, a pump, and a spray nozzle which emits a fine mist depending on size plumbed into the air intake. It operates off a of boost switch in which you can tune to spray at a certain PSI. I had mine kicking in at 2psi. Basically the idea is to run methyl alcohol and cool the supercharger. Liquid intercooling. I ran HEET (yellow bottled gas-line antifreeze) which is technically methyl alcohol and I blended it 50/50 with distilled water. This alone took .3 off of my 1/4 mile times on stock pulley just by keeping the charger cool. The kit I ran was made my CoolingMist, but quite a few other companies sell the same kit, such as DevilsOwn, heck I even seen an AEM alky kit install the other day browsing a magazine.
Definately helps in running a smaller pulley more efficiently, not to mention more safely at the same time.
so it is solely for the purpose of cooling? the alch has nothing to do with combustion or anything like Nitrous does.
I have heard about liquid intercooling.... but it is typically sprayed ONTO an existing air-intercooler/ radiator.... and assists in cooling the cooler...
but it sounds like this actually injects alch directly into the SC itself.... i can see it would lower temps... but wouldnt this also effect internal wear.... and also affect combustion (alch or alch and water as your explain, being mixed with your air charge)
i mean i guess you have water in the air on rainy days... so kinda the same thing i guess...
i just worry about squirting liquids into expencive moving parts....
my poor baby is sick... someone help me...
(2.4L engine in my cavy is ticking bad... need to make it stop)
ken soggs wrote:but it is typically sprayed ONTO an existing air-intercooler/ radiator.... and assists in cooling the cooler...
Not an option with the M45 unit.
It evaporates before hitting anything, trust me......way better than heatsoak. The cooler charge has to lower detonation to some degree.
Hit up shifted about installing the same HPT modified version of the reflash I am running. I am sure you are bound to pick up some power from that.
Stiegemeier ported, polished and rebuilt the inside of my sc. The outside treated to the show polish. I was told the going rate is you pay shipping to get it to them and then for everything I listed it is $1000+45 for them to ship it back to you. If you don't get the show polish on th outside of the blower it is about half the cost. I don't want to put words in their mouth so call them directly and get a quote from them. I am just trying to give you some ballpark figures.
I am curiuos to know if this place you are talking to knows where to get smaller pulleys for the M45. As far as I know there are no press-on pulleys made for the m45 in anything other than the stock 2.8" size. I could be wrong on this though. SIf I am right to go to a smaller pulley you would have to go to modular (qwick change) setup from pulley boys which is about 165 bucks or through Nherbst 454 pulleys whickh is about 100 bucks. I am pretty sure they would want to make some money off installing a smaller pulley and the only way they could do that and only charge 100 is with a press-on. They would have to make sure that the pulley they are using has the same number of ribs and the correct bore size to go over the supercharger as well as being smaller than 2.8" If it were me I would just buy the nherbst modular pulley and put it on myself. It is really not that difficult.
The major difference will come from swapping to a smaller pulley not so much the port and polish. Alky injevtion is a must as joe said with a smaller pulley. The smaller pulley spins the sc faster thus creating more heat. This is the main reason the alky injection is needed. There are many other benefits as well.
You don't need a bigger exhaust or a header. It will yeild a performance benefit but it is not needed. Injectors would be a very good idea to go to some 370cc stock with the sc kit are 310cc. To run 370cc you don't need a "fuel control moduale" you need to have someone with HPT tune your pcm for 370cc injectors. I would hit up the regional forum you live in and ask who has HPT and can help you with this.
I would just stick with secret cams. The HO are not a drop in replacement so if you want to do those you need to read up some on them.
Unless your head is cracked I would have it ported and polished since you are going to be doing the work to rebuild it anyway. Don't let anyone do it who does not have a flowbench.
You really need to read up on alkyi njection some more. Simple explaanation it sprays a super fine mist only under boost that is all but dispated by the time it enters the combustion chamber. Yes to much water will interfere with performance. That is why you slowly work your way up with the amount you inject as soon as you get to the point where the car just barely start to hesitate or missfire under acceleration you back it off some and that is where you set it at. The kit will come with intructions for setting it.
In the end I don't think any of this makes a bit of difference. I bet you have a destroyed rod bearing and your engine is actually knocking. The weakest point on the 2.4 even stock is the rods being starved for oil. The fix for this is the 2.3 oil pump swap.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
you gotta port your cylinder head ports and polish, then do the same to the supercharger.
be prepared to tune with HPT atfter the port job cause your messing with the volumetricsy
an upgraded ignition system is rumored to have good results with the supercharger.
Wade Jarvis wrote:
In the end I don't think any of this makes a bit of difference. I bet you have a destroyed rod bearing and your engine is actually knocking. The weakest point on the 2.4 even stock is the rods being starved for oil. The fix for this is the 2.3 oil pump swap.
Wishful thinking that the 2.3L oil pump will solve the problem. There have been two cases in maintenance section with 2.3L oil pumps and rods going bad.
Carry on.
>>>For Sale? Clicky!<<<
-----The orginal Mr.Goodwrench on the JBO since 11/99-----
Ok.... Have upgraded several things, and more on the way....
currently running a full MSD igniton, DIS-2 and 2.2L coil conversion with the MDS blaster coilsand MSD superconductor wires. NGK-TR6 plugs gapped at .055, Coolingmist Meth Injection.....
And i now have a Mantapart 2400HS Sport Head and "secret cams" on my workbench waiting to be installed.
I am thinking the head swap would be the time to do a header wouldnt it? I like the RK Sport 4-2-1... but seems a lil $$$.... and i should keep my cat... we still have emissions out here...
I dont have the money for a full exhaust at this point.... but hi-flow cat, and 2.5" pipes all the way back is definately in the works.
For now... with a stock exhaust.... would i be able to run a smaller pulley? I was told before that my exhaust is too restrictive, and adding much more air, and trying to cram it thru an exhaust designed for a N/A engine could cause problemas and damage things. And i need to wait till i get a better exhaust before i change the pulley.
any truth to this? or can i put a pulley on, but just be limited in performance gains due to the exhaust? or would i actually hurt the car doing this?
I would reccomend a 4-1 header for your sc aplication.
Keep your cat. An exhaust shop can always cut the ends off and weld on bigger ends and you have high flow cat. I was told by my local exhuast shop that the inside diameter of the cat is bigger than 2.5 inches so not to waste the money on a high flow cat.
Putting a smaller pulley on with a stock exhaust will not hurt your engine you just will not get the benefit of a better flowing exhuast. Many people have run a smaller pulley on a stock exhuast.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I have read many of your past posts about header selection....
It sounded like most people were pushing for the 4-2-1 for your needs...
why do you suggest the 4-1 for me?
as far as the cat goes.... it isnt somuch the inlet and outlet that creates the restriction, but more the design of the catalyst material inside that creates the resistance... If it was as simple as larger inlets and outlets, everyone would just go buy a cat from a single exhaust V-8 and there ya go... But i am fairly certain the problem is IN the cat, not into and out of it...
And what do people suggest for a pulley setup? Are the modular pulleys worth it? or just slap a solid pulley on and leave it?
Will running a small pulley effect my light-footed driving much? Like say i threw on a 2.5" or so... i know it will make a big difference when i step on it.... but as long as the bypass valve is open, it should still drive like normal right? Or am i missing something with the pulleys?
Stiegemeier told me about 400 plus shipping to rebuild my m45 kit.
Stiegemeier told me about 400 plus shipping to rebuild my m45.
you dont have enough for a full exhaust?
its not that expensive
heres a great set up
pacesetter header, magnaflow high flow cat, resonator, magnaflow or other muffler, clean tip and some 2.5 piping in between
should cost less than $500
and there is little to no point in doing header first or muffler first or anything like that because your exhaust is as good as your most restrictive point, so you could have 3 in header runners going into stock exhaust and you wouldnt see hardly a difference at all
i personally wouldn't even worry about a resonator, i mean my car doesn't sound raspy at all and i have a gutted cat and straight through dynomax muffler.
navycav3 wrote:heres a great set up
pacesetter header, magnaflow high flow cat, resonator, magnaflow or other muffler, clean tip and some 2.5 piping in between
That would be great, but i am told that it is the "piping" is the killer. I took my car to my favorite muffler place (known for being able to make just about anything you can think of) and asked them how much for a 2.5" exhaust. and they got under it and looked and said "we can quote you a 2.25" but we wont do a 2.5" on here, it is too tight and we couldnt guarantee it would fit right and not hit anything"
So if an experienced muffler shop wont bend me up a custom exhaust, I really doubt i could do it myself.
But i would LOVE to go that route... I already have a bunch of 2.5" pipe from another job i did. If i could bend it myself (with my fancy harbor freight pipe bender) then i would LOVE to go that route. then i could use all the parts i want. (not real thrilled with the cat backs out there i have seen, all too ricey for my tastes)
ken soggs wrote:I have read many of your past posts about header selection....
It sounded like most people were pushing for the 4-2-1 for your needs...
why do you suggest the 4-1 for me?
as far as the cat goes.... it isnt somuch the inlet and outlet that creates the restriction, but more the design of the catalyst material inside that creates the resistance... If it was as simple as larger inlets and outlets, everyone would just go buy a cat from a single exhaust V-8 and there ya go... But i am fairly certain the problem is IN the cat, not into and out of it...
And what do people suggest for a pulley setup? Are the modular pulleys worth it? or just slap a solid pulley on and leave it?
Will running a small pulley effect my light-footed driving much? Like say i threw on a 2.5" or so... i know it will make a big difference when i step on it.... but as long as the bypass valve is open, it should still drive like normal right? Or am i missing something with the pulleys?
I think the 4-2-1 might be a better header for an NA car hoping to keep from loosing low end tq. However with the sc low end tq is not that big of a deal. I really did not like the header because of all the problems I had with it fitment wise plus just by design it would cause more engine bay heat than a 4-1. I went with a 4-1 armour coated pacesetter and am very happy with it.
I am just telling you what my exhuast shop told me.
I highly reccomend the NHERBST modular pulley setup. It is the cheapest modular setup out there. I doubt you will find a press-on pulley smaller than stock. I looked and did not find any. If you did find one I doubt it would be alluminum like the modular ones.
A smaller pulley will have no effect on your out of boost driving.
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I have their 3" in my car. It fits.
mitdr774 wrote:I have their 3" in my car. It fits.
Really?? 3" pipes on a cavy? do you need that? How well does it fit? like do you have clearance issues at all? dont you ever bottom out on it?
3" would be awesome.... got any pics of the 3" installed?
do you loose too much backpressure with 3"?
I see it isnt too much more for the 3"... if there arent any issues, i may just do that... that would be sweet.
ken soggs wrote:mitdr774 wrote:I have their 3" in my car. It fits.
Really?? 3" pipes on a cavy? do you need that? How well does it fit? like do you have clearance issues at all? dont you ever bottom out on it?
3" would be awesome.... got any pics of the 3" installed?
do you loose too much backpressure with 3"?
I see it isnt too much more for the 3"... if there arent any issues, i may just do that... that would be sweet.
custom tubes will also do a 2.5 in which i think would suit the 2.4 with m45 a bit better, i have the 3 in layin in my garage and she is huge.
