Ok i have heard that water sprayers are worthless for lowering IC temps... and have heard mixed feeling on CO2 and N2O. Some say they are the best thing since gasoline, some say they are a gimmick.
I myself am wanting to give one a try... Just wondering what would be a better spray medium, CO2 or N2O...
My biggest question is
which is colder? does anyone know the temperature of each as it would exit the sprayer?
some tell me NO2 is much colder, but none have been able to prove this.
I heard the boiling point of N2O is only 20* below CO2... but that doesnt really mean too much. just where it would go from liquid to gas at 100KPa.
I know the melting point of N2O is WAY colder... so your not going to see any "icing" from N2O.. but i would think ice on the IC would be a good thing.
What i do know...
CO2 Pros
cheaper
safer
half the price of N2O
fill at any sporting goods or welding supply shop or fill yourself from welding tanks
100% legal
CO2 Cons
If you suck it into your engine you will choke
you cant choose to inject it later.
N2O Pros
Install sprayer now, upgrade to injection later for a few bucks more.
if you accidentally suck some into your intake you will actually get a lil boost.
N2O cons
only fill at the track or some performance shops
2X the cost of CO2
Illegal to have a N20 tank connetected on the street
(yeah good luck with "it is only for cooling officer")
$50+ per refill
more dangerous
Quote:
but i would think ice on the IC would be a good thing.
If the IC ices up, then you'll lose air flow threw the IC and will lose efficiency.
Bagged Base Coupe (Tinkles) wrote:Quote:
but i would think ice on the IC would be a good thing.
If the IC ices up, then you'll lose air flow threw the IC and will lose efficiency.
Well the inside of the IC wouldnt freeze... the intake air would still flow all the same... but it would be like flowing thru a block of dry ice, not just ambient air.
I am sure there is some happy medium where you get some ice but not enough to stop cross flow....
But i just dont think a lil ice would hurt anything. but yeah, all in moderation...
so anyone know the approximate temp of N2O and CO2 as sprayed at 1000psi or so? I heard CO2 sprays at around -100 degrees... but that isnt anything official.
The inside of the IC wont freeze, but the outside will. The ice will "clog" the fins of the IC.
Its the same concept that if your A/C condenser ices, your A/C blower warm air on the cold setting.
I've never heard of a condenser freezing, but an evaporator yes. If your evaporator freezes then you will get warm air through the vents.
I think it would be better if you could get the IC cold enough to freeze up. What's colder: Ice or 80F air?
Also back on topic, you could buy an N2O Ntercooler kit and use CO2. Then if you wanted to spray the engine buy the parts you need.
Evaporator, leave me alone.
i am definitely intersted in this as i have the dei cryo spraybar that i will be installing on the intercooler next week.
jason
I am also thinking of adding the IC spray setup.....so listening as well.
I personally think for YOU Ken, go with the Nitrous, as you were going to put spray down your throat anyways......no??
So if you have plans to juice later, might as well use it to cool as well.
For most everyone else, I think CO2 would be just fine. I dont THINK there is a significant temp difference between the 2.
John Benham wrote:I am also thinking of adding the IC spray setup.....so listening as well.
I personally think for YOU Ken, go with the Nitrous, as you were going to put spray down your throat anyways......no??
So if you have plans to juice later, might as well use it to cool as well.
For most everyone else, I think CO2 would be just fine. I dont THINK there is a significant temp difference between the 2.
Well i thought the same thing... but as this is still my primary driver car, i cant afford nor do i want to use N2O on the street. legally i cant even hook it up. I was actually thinking about running a full N2O setup, with sprayer as a purge, and single port wet injection. BUT... on the street, switch the tank to CO2, and disable the injectors.
I have a huge CO2 tank for my mig welder, and it only costs me like $30 to fill that, and i could refill a 10# bottle like 6 times from that sucker. So that is why CO2 interests me. super cheap (for me at least), legal on the street, and as my intake is fed cold air thru my ram air hood, i dont have to worry too much about ingesting CO2 from the sprayer. And for the track, it is as easy as a bottle change.
well i gotta say.....you are VERY concerned about legality for an Ohio resident.
I dont know what the laws are there, but over here it is not a very big problem to run spray.....its expensive, but not a big deal.
The question is, can you run CO2 through a N2O system w/o causing harm. I am assuming doing a full long purge before switching between the 2 would obviously be in order if you wanted to run it through the motor......but s that all???
If so, I say go with a N2O setup, and run CO2 through it, maybe throw some N2O in for a track day or something.
Well John, as you know, my car doesnt always stay in ohio. I drive all over the place with this thing. PA, NY, MI, IL, KY, TN... So i would rather be safe than sorry. what flies in ohio may not sit so well with the other states and so on.
And i just have a habit of getting pulled over for stupid stuff, so i would hate to get pulled over for something like my headlight tint, and then have them see a nitrous gauge and ask me to pop the trunk and impound my car 300 miles from home....
and from what i have seen and heard, most all CO2 components are the same as, or interchangable with N2O parts... solenoids, lines, etc... i guess the 2 are very similar gasses in many ways. But then again, i have not heard this from any "official" source.
well I do know, that you only have to abide by the laws your car is licensed in, although I would agree with playing safe.
I would give NOS or nitrous express a call, and run your theories by them.....see if they have any decent input.
I have someone I work with who has some connections in the nitrous industry, I will run this by him, and see what he comes up with.
I just dont want Biased advice... you know if you call a N2O dealer they will try to tell you to only use N2O... you talk to CryO2 they will say "you can only use CO2". Burger king isnt going to tell you to go next door and get your fries from McD's
I would prefer to talk to someone in the "solenoid" industry... the only thing that could change is the type of seals or whatnot... i know in hydraulics, most all valves and solenoids are the same, you can use a water valve with oil simply by changing the type of seals in most cases.
The only thing i can see beeing an issue is with the different melting points... perhaps CO2 solenoids need some added frost protection, as N2O is much less likely to ice up? i dont know...
and john, is there any industry you DONT have contacts in? you seem to know someone in every field you can think of...
I dont have many connections in the ghey midget pr0n industry.......if it makes you feel better.....
oh man.... really??? darn it... i was going to ask you if you could hook me up, always wanted to watch one of those in the making. there goes that dream... thanks alot john.
SRRY man, dont give up on your dreams just cause of me though.
Ill try to get back to you tomorrow about the N20/CO2 systems tomorrow.
I'm willing to bet that running a 35 shot the traditional way (into the engine) will cool down the intake air temps just as much if not more as well as add double the power of spraying it on the outside of the intercooler.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
This is very true... but for street use it is illeagal and costly. for the track, i completely agree with you.
But for street use, CO2 is legal, cheaper, and can be used anytime IAT's climb (after sitting at a light, or in heavy traffic, or just when you want a lil more pep to beat the ricer trying to show you up)
ken soggs wrote:This is very true... but for street use it is illeagal and costly. for the track, i completely agree with you.
But for street use, CO2 is legal, cheaper, and can be used anytime IAT's climb (after sitting at a light, or in heavy traffic, or just when you want a lil more pep to beat the ricer trying to show you up)
Drag racing on the street is illegal as was, i doubt using nitrous makes it any worse....
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Also, to really gain power from an intercooler sprayer you need a different tune than you'd use without it to gain optimum power. Its just like using race gas and advancing ignition timing to gain power. Its just another form of detonation supression allowing you to run higher boost levels and more timing advance. Yes cooling the air alone will add power but the claims that the manufacturers of these systems use are results mostly gained from ignition tuning. I believe a good meth injection system with proper tuning will yeild better results than any CO2 sprayer.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
Drag racing is indeed illegal on the streets. But that is a moving violation and typically just results in a hefty ticket and some points. A equipment violation such as nitrous, can result in the car being towed and impounded and the nitrous system being confiscated. I cant say which one is better... i would much prefer to avoid both.
and yeah, i would say that paying for towing, impounding, vehicle violation, a new nitrous setup, and having to walk home would all very much count as "making it worse" on top of the drag racing ticket.
but yes, i get your point, but it doesnt answer the question. you can still use extra cooling when not racing someone. i have seen my IAT's climb 50 degrees just from sitting in traffic.
Don't expect a cop to know or care that your CO2 bottle isn't nitrous.
I know different states have different laws but here drag racing will get your car towed but just having nitrous won't. I've been pulled over 10+ times with the cop seeing my bottle and i've never even been issued a ticket for it.
- 93 mph in the 1/8 mile
Member of J-Body Of Michigan.
ok, I think we all understand that you can get in trouble for alot of things. and any run in with the police is bad...
but can we maybe get back to the subject here...
apart from the legal and ethical issues...
IF someone were to run an intercooler sprayer on their street driven car, which would be best?
I am very curious on this too, And since i dont plan on using it for any racing of any sort maybe we can avoid that discussion
I actualy was looking into this for the tow rig as high intake temps on long hills will = walking. (well actually leaving the rig and driving 3 V8 swapped vehicles, but stil) I have been worried about wether CO2 would have proper cooling effect.
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Now with northstar V8, IRS, 20's n 22's
