Hi guys,Wil and I finished installing the supercharger kit on his 2000 Automatic Cavalier Z24, and we've run into big issues.
The deal is GM techline will NOT give him the reflash. For whatever reason, they cannot track down the original purchaser of his s/c unit, and since his car is an automatic and the VCI for the reflash on this sc unit is meant for a manual, it won't work on his car without getting approval from techline. So in order to get his car even drivable, I used HPTuners to flash on the reflash file for an 00 Auto cavalier - but all is not well.
The car hesitates big time under boost, is not misfiring, but i do hear a bit of knocking when just driving very lightly around town. I realize its not ideal for him to be driving it this way, but he NEEDS the car to get home so he can put it in a garage, rather than being left outside 45km from his house. Anyways I told him to drive it home, but to take it easy.
We are seeing knock retard under idle, and when decelerating - and the knocking noise and severe hesitation upon acceleration after deceleration. The problem area is in low rpm for the most part, though I had him give it a little gas as you'll see in the 2nd file below, and we got a lot of knock retard. I am concerned that the reflash via hptuners just doesnt do the job properly.
There is currently no misfiring, plugs are gapped to 0.050", AC Delco R42LTS. Injectors are 310cc, used but look new from the outside at least. No apparent vacuum leaks.
My best suggestion would be to flash back to stock and have GM flash it, but I'm not sure if they will do it because he was talking to people fairly high up at GMPP.
Please, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My battery is about to die, and I'm sitting in a cafe typing this
THANK YOU!!
http://home.cogeco.ca/~djdnz/Wil%202000%20Cavalier%20Flashed%20Modified.hpt
http://home.cogeco.ca/~djdnz/wils%20run%20around%20with%20some%20boost.hpl
http://home.cogeco.ca/~djdnz/wils%20car%20idle%20after%20modify.hpl
" To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous. "
and yes 2 bar map sensor is installed!
" To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous. "
On the way home the car continues to run fine at any steady speed ( accelerating at a pace not quick enough to produce boost).....
After every deceleration the car hesitates for more than a second or two and sometimes longer once I try to accelerate again...
Other things I noticed
I have a traction control indicator on my cluster with the
car harsh shifting into and out of every gear.....at a stop the car seems sluggish and does stall out unless I give the car time for the tranny to reset sort of speak.....after I stop and wait for a 10sec. count or so the car seems to make a harsh shift into first...once this takes place I can pull away from a stop with ease...
You need the reflash from GM. The tech doing the reflash at the dealer does not know what they are doing. All they need is your VIN number to do it.
FU Tuning
My VIN has been red flagged by GM Tech.
I've been told by GM Customer service that there will be no way for me to get the reflash know matter what dealer I go to......Some BS about liability concerns.
If I can't get my hands on someones VIN that has the reflash on a 2000 2.4L AUTO I'm S.O.L.
I have to tune without it...
Soo what is the problem with the hpt flash? Downloaded the exact correct file? Not all cars react the same to the flash, I had a buddy flash the sc file on mine with hpt and the car had misfiring/stalling issues until we modified some of the lower pe settings.
icemike89 wrote:Soo what is the problem with the hpt flash? Downloaded the exact correct file? Not all cars react the same to the flash, I had a buddy flash the sc file on mine with hpt and the car had misfiring/stalling issues until we modified some of the lower pe settings.
For some reason the HPT copies do not always work right. I had misfire issues, and my VE still had them. The copy I had was a copy I took off a car that worked great. Once my friend hooked me up with a GM reflash I was good to go.
FU Tuning
Go on autotrader. Find a vin to a 2000 auto z24. Use that vin in order to get the gm reflash.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, April 30, 2009 10:16 AM
Hmm, gotcha. Has this vin already been registered with hpt or this the first time? If its just a problem with the flash sticking then try modifying it, or even starting over with a 2-bar tune if you have some experience.
I got the reflash.....Mmmmmuhahahaha I BEAT GM...!
Customer Service over ruled all...!
The car got the right reflash however I still have low end issues...Stalling..after almost every stop..
Thoughts...
I had the same issue after the flash though mine was an hpt version, had to hold the throttle up a bit at a stop or it would stall. Was an error in the lower pe tables. Atleast you got the flash now you can modify it with hpt
Mine bogs out even after decelerating from 65 to 55...once I try to accelerate after any decelerate I get bad bogging...
Thing it might be a vac line...?
The person I bought the kit off of failed to included the Air Duct.....our remedy was to clamp the intake directly to the throttle body....
Does anyone think this may cause my decel issues and or stalling....?
If so can I fab up a air duct...? Suggestions...?
Seems to me that everyone that gets the reflash seems to enjoy the car more afterwards.......wish I could say the same
Could be as simple as a plugged cat, engine isn't breathing. Your intake setup is fine.
14.330 @ 96.37mph
Could be....? I'm getting a harsh shift now...no t/c light on my dash....
Thoughts
So the car is running fairly well except for the stalling after deceleration. It's not the decel itself, or the idle it gets to - it's when you apply the gas after slowing down. I've played with the DFCO ten ways til sunday and I came up with nothing. I tried to lean it out, and richen it up (he doesn't have a wideband so it's hard for me to tell what's happening) via the VE tables in the low rpm/map region with no effect. I'm assuming this has something to do within the closed loop portion of the tune, or again that it's something on the mechanical side of things. MAP sensor keeps coming to mind, but I'd hate to just keep throwing more money at this.
Do you guys have any suggestions? Currently it's back to the stock reflash tune (Wil, this is EXACTLY the one that Ryan sent us - so check your email from then), and the stalling and bogging doesn't seem like its even remotely going to fix itself. I'm off to Italy tonight for two weeks so until then the car is parked unless you guys can help him out.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Ciao!
-Dave
" To study and not think is a waste. To think and not study is dangerous. "
Really need to get a wideband on it. Also, are you datalogging while this is happening?
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
For a kit that is suppose to be plug and play, it burns my a$$ having to buy a gauge the costs what it cost for a wideband...
I will if it solves all....however GM swung and missed with this one....
makes me
Sounds like ti could be a TPS issue.
FU Tuning
No GM did it just right with this one. This is the first I've heard of a stalling problem after install. The kit is plug and play, and the only reason to get a WB is if you're playing around with it with HPT. The reflash is well known to make it run overly rich.
I can understand your frustration, but don't @!#$ on the General for an isolated incident.
I'm thinking it could be a TCM issue.
14.330 @ 96.37mph
Blown I have respect for you and your experience for this platform however I believe your response is slightly narrow minded..
Plug and play….? I’m not playing…..
I’m really quit angry considering if I did a turbo set up I would have expected these types of issues….
Install…..Reflash…..ENJOY…! Not the case…..
There is no HPtuners tune on the car…..nothing but a GM reflash….nothing changed at all from the GM reflash.
I have been a GM owner since I was 16yrs old....I'm 34 now and will always be a GM guy...however you must understand my displeasure...
Thanks John for the tip I will look into it tonight……
IMO, anytime you are running boost other than OEM without a wibeband, you are asking for trouble. I don't care how plug and play it should be.
87 Firebird
All stock...........lol.
randizzle wrote:IMO, anytime you are running boost other than OEM without a wibeband, you are asking for trouble. I don't care how plug and play it should be.
Your opinion is extremely helpful thanks...
The stall issue could be as simple as an incorrect routed line. Check everything over and make sure that it is all in the correct locations and not damaged at all. You are the first I have heard of having a problem with a stall at every stop, makes me think that there was an installation error.
