So I'm currently running 50% methanol and 50% distilled water. I know some have been more successful running a higher percentage of methanol. I recently went from the 80mm on the TVS supercharger down to the 75MM pulley. I was running about as much timing as you can on the 80MM. All other things being the same running the same timing with the 75MM I have 1-4 degrees max knock in 2-3 cells in hp tuners above 6800rpm.
I was able to pull some timing and have it run zero knock across the board but I'd really like to be able to run max timing like I was before with the added boost. I'm moving to a 67% methanol 33% water solution. I'm hoping this change will allow for the added timing.
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
windshield washer fluid for me, probably about 35%-40% meth, hitting 22* on a 2.9 pulley right now, havent messed with it in a while
12.33 @ 111.67 mph [Oct 2009]
Dyno'd on 08/02/09 - Mustang Dyno:
327.6 WHP 333.6 WTQ [10.1 AFR]
Well since my car is currently running in the 10's for AFR I am running 100% distilled water. However as soon as I get the AFR straight it will be running a 50/50 mix. I would bet money there is a very good reason every manufacterer reccomends a 50/50 mix
FORGET GIRLS GONE WILD WE HAVE GOVERNMENT SPENDING GONE WILD!
I run a 70% true methanol (VP) and 30% distilled water mixture in my Cobalt. My IAT's rarely go above 130 degrees and i'm currently running 24 degrees of timing without knock.
President/Founder - 607 Motorsports
I have been runing RainX -25 washer fluid, but started playing with mixtures recently. I ran some 100% meth for half a tank, and liked the results. Currently playing with half a gallon of 100% meth and half a bottle of rainX -25 washer fluid. Really liking these results. Still have not added much timing yet.
FU Tuning
the stuff i buy is about 1.19 a gallon so thats a plus for me
12.33 @ 111.67 mph [Oct 2009]
Dyno'd on 08/02/09 - Mustang Dyno:
327.6 WHP 333.6 WTQ [10.1 AFR]
100% water.
Takes away heat the best.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
^Yup. It does hold more heat but also takes up combustion space too. A 50/50 mix is about the bang/buck ratio and why so many run it. 50% water for heat absorption and 50% Meth for added octane and high latent heat properties but still aiding towards combustion. I've been screwing around with xylene and toluene mixture....took a pump diaphragm...bad idea. Will try again when I get the nylon upper replacement for the pump. I did like the results tho, but only got butt dyno $hits on it so far, not even a knock log...the pump didn't last long enough. Boo.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
I ran the best times on water.
Chris
'02 Z-24 Supercharged
13.7 @102.45 MPH Third Place, 2007 GMSC Bash SOLD AS OF 01MAR08
80* day I took the IAT from 170* down to 70* with straight water. Best I ever did with any alcohol/water mix was a 70* reduction.
The temputure im not so much concerned about its wanting to run the additional timing.
That does bring to mind an interesting idea though, perhaps running two seperate systems, the pre blower one being just water, and then running a seperate one post blower with a plate like this
plate
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, June 11, 2009 7:10 AM
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
Well my goals on an LNF are slightly different than yours on an LSJ, but I will 75% methanol injected post IC but pre IAT2. This will be flowed at about 5gph with a boost onset of about 3-5psi. On my current setup (tuned only), this will serve primarily as a charge cooler, with some added octane rating as well.
Once there is a bigger turbo, I will add a second injector nozzle (larger - ~10-15GPH) just before the TB and run 2:1:1 methanol:isopropanol:water. IPA takes less heat but adds much more fuel value than methanol. This will be my supplemental fueling "band-aid" incase HPT doesn't workout more fueling tables by the time i get a larger turbo...
Rodimus Prime wrote:The temputure im not so much concerned about its wanting to run the additional timing.
That does bring to mind an interesting idea though, perhaps running two seperate systems, the pre blower one being just water, and then running a seperate one post blower with a plate like this
plate
zzp sells a blower spacer like that
12.33 @ 111.67 mph [Oct 2009]
Dyno'd on 08/02/09 - Mustang Dyno:
327.6 WHP 333.6 WTQ [10.1 AFR]
Rodimus Prime wrote:The temputure im not so much concerned about its wanting to run the additional timing.
how much timing are you running now?
I was running 24.5 max before the pulley swap, im a few degrees down now from that i think still 19-20ish at least, im hoping the bigger shot of methanol lets me run the same timing as before
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
icemike89 wrote:oldskool wrote:Once there is a bigger turbo, I will add a second injector nozzle (larger - ~10-15GPH) just before the TB and run 2:1:1 methanol:isopropanol:water. IPA takes less heat but adds much more fuel value than methanol. This will be my supplemental fueling "band-aid" incase HPT doesn't workout more fueling tables by the time i get a larger turbo...
More info on this?
Well, with direct injection, at any given RPM you have a shorter available time to inject (induction stroke only for well atomized mixture). So if you want to run something like a GT3076r, which makes power beyond 7k rpm on a 2.0L, you basically get some screwed up fueling on the top end.
Some people are planning to run a second rail of traditional port fuel injectors, and some run a high flow of water meth. I plan to try isopropanol because like I said, it has a greater fuel value (more hydrocarbon mass) than methanol. Hopefully it can supplement enough to make a consistent 400whp without fueling issues.
Of course HPT may crack some other fueling tables by then (injector flow rate, pump duty cycle) that would allow us to make hardware upgrades to avoid band aids like this
Im running 100% meth in the solstice.
Norms Fenders
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Solo Hi Flow Cat/ 3in dual exhaust
Kappa Intake/IC Pipes
Pcm4less Tune
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Dakota Digital EGT & Boost Gauage
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JPM Shifter
Custom Kicker System By JPM
MBRP Heat Shield
Dejon Intercooler
AlkaControl Water/Meth Injection
oldskool wrote:icemike89 wrote:oldskool wrote:Once there is a bigger turbo, I will add a second injector nozzle (larger - ~10-15GPH) just before the TB and run 2:1:1 methanol:isopropanol:water. IPA takes less heat but adds much more fuel value than methanol. This will be my supplemental fueling "band-aid" incase HPT doesn't workout more fueling tables by the time i get a larger turbo...
More info on this?
Well, with direct injection, at any given RPM you have a shorter available time to inject (induction stroke only for well atomized mixture). So if you want to run something like a GT3076r, which makes power beyond 7k rpm on a 2.0L, you basically get some screwed up fueling on the top end.
Some people are planning to run a second rail of traditional port fuel injectors, and some run a high flow of water meth. I plan to try isopropanol because like I said, it has a greater fuel value (more hydrocarbon mass) than methanol. Hopefully it can supplement enough to make a consistent 400whp without fueling issues.
Of course HPT may crack some other fueling tables by then (injector flow rate, pump duty cycle) that would allow us to make hardware upgrades to avoid band aids like this
And this is fine for the injection pump?
just remember methanol is corrosive and does no good running straighht rather than mixing
Built&Boosted moar
04 Cavalier Turbo r.i.p my baby
2nd place 2009 GM tuner bash qwick 8--holla
icemike89 wrote:oldskool wrote:icemike89 wrote:oldskool wrote:Once there is a bigger turbo, I will add a second injector nozzle (larger - ~10-15GPH) just before the TB and run 2:1:1 methanol:isopropanol:water. IPA takes less heat but adds much more fuel value than methanol. This will be my supplemental fueling "band-aid" incase HPT doesn't workout more fueling tables by the time i get a larger turbo...
More info on this?
Well, with direct injection, at any given RPM you have a shorter available time to inject (induction stroke only for well atomized mixture). So if you want to run something like a GT3076r, which makes power beyond 7k rpm on a 2.0L, you basically get some screwed up fueling on the top end.
Some people are planning to run a second rail of traditional port fuel injectors, and some run a high flow of water meth. I plan to try isopropanol because like I said, it has a greater fuel value (more hydrocarbon mass) than methanol. Hopefully it can supplement enough to make a consistent 400whp without fueling issues.
Of course HPT may crack some other fueling tables by then (injector flow rate, pump duty cycle) that would allow us to make hardware upgrades to avoid band aids like this
And this is fine for the injection pump?
The 2.0 SIDI has a standard fuel pump that delivers fuel at "low" pressure to the camshaft lobe driven "high pressure" pump. This pump then supplies the fuel rail. Similar in basic operation to how a common rail diesel works.
mitdr774 wrote:icemike89 wrote:oldskool wrote:icemike89 wrote:oldskool wrote:Once there is a bigger turbo, I will add a second injector nozzle (larger - ~10-15GPH) just before the TB and run 2:1:1 methanol:isopropanol:water. IPA takes less heat but adds much more fuel value than methanol. This will be my supplemental fueling "band-aid" incase HPT doesn't workout more fueling tables by the time i get a larger turbo...
More info on this?
Well, with direct injection, at any given RPM you have a shorter available time to inject (induction stroke only for well atomized mixture). So if you want to run something like a GT3076r, which makes power beyond 7k rpm on a 2.0L, you basically get some screwed up fueling on the top end.
Some people are planning to run a second rail of traditional port fuel injectors, and some run a high flow of water meth. I plan to try isopropanol because like I said, it has a greater fuel value (more hydrocarbon mass) than methanol. Hopefully it can supplement enough to make a consistent 400whp without fueling issues.
Of course HPT may crack some other fueling tables by then (injector flow rate, pump duty cycle) that would allow us to make hardware upgrades to avoid band aids like this
And this is fine for the injection pump?
The 2.0 SIDI has a standard fuel pump that delivers fuel at "low" pressure to the camshaft lobe driven "high pressure" pump. This pump then supplies the fuel rail. Similar in basic operation to how a common rail diesel works.
i'm pretty sure he was referring to the alcohol injection pump. but yes, anything designed to tolerate methanol will tolerate isopropanol. IPA is actually used as a seal primer for some of my applications at work
most pumps nowdays will run 100% methanol if needed
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
oldskool wrote:i'm pretty sure he was referring to the alcohol injection pump. but yes, anything designed to tolerate methanol will tolerate isopropanol. IPA is actually used as a seal primer for some of my applications at work
Im just used to people assuming the newer direct inject motors are like non common rail diesels that use an injector pump. Those can be pushed to their limit and run out of fueling ability. My apologies for the assumption.
Yep, was referring to the alchohol injection pump.
I def plan to pick up another alchy kit by the end of summer to use with my turbo setup. I always ran a 50/50 heet-distilled water mix with my m45. Had the boost switch set to 1psi and only needed to check/refill my 2 quart tank about once a month which only costs like four bucks to do.
