OK by the topic you can see that I am new to this so please be gentile, but honest!
I am still learning and trying to formulate an opinion! Thanks
If a turbo or supercharger is taking exhaust or air and compressing it to be delivered to your carb for mixture ect....
Why not run some stainless tubing to you air box (after the air filter and before the carbs) and inject 5, 10, or 15psi of air? Pipe the tubing in to a air tank full of air (say like 100psi or so). Then use a electric valve to turn on and off the flow as needed?
A small electric air pump could be attached to the tank to keep the unit full so that the supply would not be drained.
Ok so that is my thinking
What do you think?
You need ALOT more air then what you think. A traditional air compressor could never even come close to keep up with the air demands required.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
There is something that is already made for this type of air delivery.....It's called nitrous oxide. I'm not trying to be a dick, but the idea you have has a practical application in the delivery of giggle gas. Like Joshua said, a traditional air compressor can't keep up with air supply demands. Turbos and superchargers also flow massive air (measured in cubic feet per minute), so just looking at psi will get you nowhere. An air tank won't hold what you need. On the other hand, laughing gas has the most bang for the buck of any power adder and can be used with said delivery system.
You really wanna go radical? Use straight oxygen instead of nitrous! The beauty of nitrous... aside from the fact it sorta pushes it's way into the intake tract... is that it contains more oxygen than the earth's atmosphere (Earth's: 20
. bottled oxygen is 5x that! Of course, you'll need to back it up with 5x the amount of fuel than you'd run N/A, but you'd make 5x the power... At least until your engine explodes, which the moment you hit it!
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
To give you a quick idea, a typical shop air compressor, like the kind on wheels with a 20 gallon tank, puts out about 9 CFM at 90 PSI. Maybe (a best case estimate) that would be around 50 CFM at 15 PSI. A typical turbo for our cars on the other hand, flows about 400 CFM at 15 PSI. As you can see, it would not be able to keep up.
Great input and I am getting the process now!
I think I got lost on the CFM part.
So many options and theorys and a lot of just insane crap on the internet!
Seraph not a dick, thanks!
I do have another question on CFM and PSI of a turbo:
If your motor is pulling in 500 CFM (roughly) then a turbo has to produce 1000 CFM at 15 psi to operate?
Yes! That is actually the part most people struggle to understand.
Typically, if your engine flows X CFM naturally aspirated, you will need 2X CFM at 15 PSI and 3X CFM at 29 PSI and so on. Lots of people think that it is possible for a bigger turbo to flow more CFMs than a smaller turbo at the same PSI. In reality the only reason a bigger turbo makes more power at the same PSI as a smaller turbo is because it has less backpressure on the exhaust side, and heats the air less on the compressor side (and cooler air means more horsepower). PSI is a measure of intake restriction, and when you double your intake restriction it is because you are trying to add more air than the engine can suck in by itself.
Think of a garden hose. If you have a hose of a certain size, it will flow X gallons per hour at Y pressure. As long as the density of the fluid stays the same (IE, not a non-newtonian fluid,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Newtonian_fluid) than the pressure vs flow will follow a mathematical curve. All this is true as long as the hose does not change in diameter. If the diameter changes, than the flow vs pressure curve will change also.
The same is true for turbos. They have charts (commonly called turbo maps) that show us the relationship between flow and pressure. You can almost look at a bigger turbo as a bigger diameter garden hose. It will take less pressure to flow the same amount of air when compared to a smaller turbo. This is why most people think that a bigger turbo can flow more air at a given PSI than a smaller turbo at the same pressure. However, what they don't understand is that PSI is measured in the intake manifold. As long as everything after the turbo on the intake side stays the same between two different turbos, the bigger turbo will only make more power because it has less backpressure and the air coming out is cooler (and maybe it spins easier because it has better bearings). Obviously, if you port the heads and manifold it will flow more air at the same pressure.
It's kinda like having a 1" garden hose that goes into a 0.5" garden hose. Ultimately, the flow in that system is limited by the smaller hose. And cars are the same way, if your turbo can flow 1000 CFM and your engine can only flow 500 CFM than you will make about 15 PSI. If you get another turbo, it can't magically cram more air in at the same PSI. It is simply impossible. And if you don't believe me take Differential Equations and Fluid Mechanics.
I know that was a bit long-winded, but I think some people here needed to hear it.
Some more reading:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/street-racing-kill-stories/1074657-i-finally-raced-subaru.html
Not necessarily. The turbo setup I plan to use, whenever I get money to finish the damn thing, flows 561 cfm @ 23.7 psi. That's 38.7 pounds of air per minute. And that's at 6500 rpm. Check out <a href =
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/>Squirrel Performance</a href> for a good idea on matching a turbo to your car.
Wagonwes: that is by far the best layman's terms explanation I've seen in a while. I agree that there are a few who need to see that.
seraph wrote:Not necessarily. The turbo setup I plan to use, whenever I get money to finish the damn thing, flows 561 cfm @ 23.7 psi. That's 38.7 pounds of air per minute. And that's at 6500 rpm. Check out Squirrel Performance for a good idea on matching a turbo to your car.
I was saying in general, if you double your flow you double your pressure. The 1000 CFM and 500 CFM numbers were just for easy math. I actually made my own turbo sizer/ horsepower/ quarter mile calculator. I will post it up tomorrow, it is an excel document. I have tested a few cars on it, it is quite accurate for the most part.
seraph wrote: Wagonwes: that is by far the best layman's terms explanation I've seen in a while. I agree that there are a few who need to see that
Thanks.
Wagonwes wrote:seraph wrote:Not necessarily. The turbo setup I plan to use, whenever I get money to finish the damn thing, flows 561 cfm @ 23.7 psi. That's 38.7 pounds of air per minute. And that's at 6500 rpm. Check out Squirrel Performance for a good idea on matching a turbo to your car.
I was saying in general, if you double your flow you double your pressure. The 1000 CFM and 500 CFM numbers were just for easy math. I actually made my own turbo sizer/ horsepower/ quarter mile calculator. I will post it up tomorrow, it is an excel document. I have tested a few cars on it, it is quite accurate for the most part.
I had actually meant that statement for John. They don't teach idiots like me how to use quotes!!
Wagonwes wrote:
Thanks.
Your welcome! Useful knowledge and wisdom is always appreciated!
wow thanks all for the input, i am starting to get it finally.
I am finding so many charts and turbos on the net it is impossible to find the perfect set up. I am just wanting to add a little more go go to my truck!
I have a 2000 Ford F150 4.1L V6 5 speed
The options seem limitless less the ($$ factor) so can I get any guidance or direction please?
AGAIN THANKS FOR ALL THE INPUT
In a perfect world where there was no restrictions or limits on a turbo, what would be the best combination of CFM and PSI?
John
john taton wrote:
In a perfect world where there was no restrictions or limits on a turbo, what would be the best combination of CFM and PSI?
John
One that matches your particular engine combination. Once again, if you go turbo, use the reference at squirrel performance. It will at least get you started.
Here is mine also, but it does not have turbo maps. It also spits out the needed injector size and fuel pump size (and quarter mile time/mph).
http://www.filedropper.com/automotivecalculator
I wish there was a way to put attachments on this forum...
Wagonwes wrote:
I wish there was a way to put attachments on this forum...
Attachments is a benefit of a premy membership.
