i am running my oil feed line from my head and was wondering if i should change the oil restricter size if its more than a little bit of lower pressure. thanks
running rich? turn the boost up
forgot to mention, it was being fed from the galley before
running rich? turn the boost up
i tapped into my oil filter housing with a 1/8 npt -4 fitting. made it much more simple.
forgot to mention: i also made sure i used a restrictor on the turbo. my restrictor has a 0.060" orifice. if you have a ball bearing turbo you want to restrict it to ~ 0.030" orifice.
Or you can run -3 and use no restrictor (in most cases).
it is a journal bearing turbonetics turbo. im not sure of the size but i know i drilled it out one size over from when i got it off ebay for my 42 trim turbo. i will have to measure it. does anyone know the type of oil pressure from the taps on the side of the head?
running rich? turn the boost up
the head is too low for a journal bearing...
talk to cliff at turbopower.com he will tell you that for a journal bearing not to run less than 40psi on a journal bearing turbo.
the head is not high enough pressure. its too low. you need a high pressure port, and he said he never runs restrictors on turbo's unless its a ball bearing turbo.
BuiltNBoosted wrote:the head is too low for a journal bearing...
talk to cliff at turbopower.com he will tell you that for a journal bearing not to run less than 40psi on a journal bearing turbo.
the head is not high enough pressure. its too low. you need a high pressure port, and he said he never runs restrictors on turbo's unless its a ball bearing turbo.
Ditto. I have heard the same about no restrictor on journal bearings.
interesting. i never heard that before. does anyone know about the pressure of the head?
running rich? turn the boost up
It's ridiculously low after the vehicle reaches normal operating temp on the eco head port (the exhaust cam oil gally). Highway pressure is around 20psi and at idle depending on the temps outside your lucky to see 15 psi. During warm up you will see 40-60 psi but it quickly decreases once the oil gets up to temp. On the Eco I have never seen the need for a restrictor if plumbed off the exhaust cam oil gally
ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician
ive always used restrictors on journal bearing turbos. ive built many turbo cars and motorcycles with restrictors and have had no issues on any of them. 40 psi to a journal bearing turbo is way too much. on cold start, oil pressure can reach 80 psi. no turbo seal is going to with stand that.
Well ill disagree with you for my own car and listen to cliff from turbo power who has been doing it for 30 years, and said to never run less than 40psi to a journal bearing turbo and to leave mine unrestricted since I have -4 feed and -10 return
BuiltNBoosted wrote:Well ill disagree with you for my own car and listen to cliff from turbo power who has been doing it for 30 years, and said to never run less than 40psi to a journal bearing turbo and to leave mine unrestricted since I have -4 feed and -10 return
I will disagree till the day I die. I have ran a head port on a journal bearing now for 6 years, never one issue. I have known of several others using the head ports and zero issues. Your's seemed to be a single case in the eco world of killing turbos from that port, it may be low pressure but it works just fine. Not to mention the previous owner of my turbo kit made 440 whp on that same head port. And he ran that turbo off the head for years as well. even before he built the motor
Blouch turbo told me everything I asked and have followed their advice, and never an issue.
I have been ding some research and a journal bearing operates best between 20-50 oil psi under full load. anything over 55+ and you could risk seal damage. SRT4 boards, miata boards(which had some nice reads from corky's book)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:14 PM
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IamQwibby (Eco Meatcake) wrote:BuiltNBoosted wrote:Well ill disagree with you for my own car and listen to cliff from turbo power who has been doing it for 30 years, and said to never run less than 40psi to a journal bearing turbo and to leave mine unrestricted since I have -4 feed and -10 return
I will disagree till the day I die. I have ran a head port on a journal bearing now for 6 years, never one issue. I have known of several others using the head ports and zero issues. Your's seemed to be a single case in the eco world of killing turbos from that port, it may be low pressure but it works just fine. Not to mention the previous owner of my turbo kit made 440 whp on that same head port. And he ran that turbo off the head for years as well. even before he built the motor
Blouch turbo told me everything I asked and have followed their advice, and never an issue.
I have been ding some research and a journal bearing operates best between 20-50 oil psi under full load. anything over 55+ and you could risk seal damage. SRT4 boards, miata boards(which had some nice reads from corky's book)
I've never used one on the Eco Head port either on any of the several Eco Js I have boosted over the years and have not had a single journal bearing failure either. My 20G has 40K on it with no restrictor and its as good as new still.
The one or two that I have encountered from others builds that had an issue had poor drainage due to shotty drain line size and routing. If it's 30 degrees ambient and you just start the engine and decide to drag race down your street immediately following start up yeah your gonna probably blow by the journal from excessive pressure but if your doing that, thats the least of your worries.
ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician
Today, cruising on the interstate, 75, oil pressure was at about 13-15psi... thats LOW, off the side of the head. on start up its 40 and drops in minutes.
talking to camron today we came up with the solution of using the port under the intake manifold as a supply. thats what he uses with a restrictor, as well since he is a bb turbo. he also told me i dont need a restrictor. i have -4 feed and -10 return.
BuiltNBoosted wrote:Today, cruising on the interstate, 75, oil pressure was at about 13-15psi... thats LOW, off the side of the head. on start up its 40 and drops in minutes.
talking to camron today we came up with the solution of using the port under the intake manifold as a supply. thats what he uses with a restrictor, as well since he is a bb turbo. he also told me i dont need a restrictor. i have -4 feed and -10 return.
I believe you are referring to the right balance shaft oil gallys. I am actually hooking up to those this weekend to test pressures so I'll let you know what I see under all conditions of driving. I will be doing it tonight after it cools down a little out here. I was just under there last night looking at em because I had the pleasure of replacing my radiator fan motor last night. Took a poo on me on the way home from work.
Your head pressures sound like they are right near what mine are too. As I said in previous posts the pressures there are ridiculously low
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yeah please let me know what you get for the plugs under the intake mani... thats my next attempt.
I think as long as all lines are sized correctly there should be no issues.
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Under the intake manifold? You mean where the stock oil sending unit is? On cold start and just a 2k rev you will get over a 100psi spike, on fully warm motor with oil temps around 180 you will get 80psi.
FU Tuning
my biggest concern is without a restrictor i wouldnt feel confortable taking valuable oil volume away from the motor. with a restrictor on the turbo the engine maintains its normal oil pressure/oil volume. the oil sending unit may show 20-25 psi at cruise on a warm engine but the cylinder head may only have 10 psi due to pressure loss from oil flow. so if you dont restrict your turbo the pressure may be lower at the head. i would rather replace a turbo then a motor any day. ive used restrictors on ever turbo build and i havent had a turbo or an engine failure so ill stick with what works.
before on my ebay turdbo i used the tap to the back of the engine block oil galley and used a restricter off ebay which i made one size larger. at warm idle i would see 60 psi. at about 5k getting on it hot i would see 100+
running rich? turn the boost up
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:Under the intake manifold? You mean where the stock oil sending unit is? On cold start and just a 2k rev you will get over a 100psi spike, on fully warm motor with oil temps around 180 you will get 80psi.
thats where camron is pulling his from but he has a bb turbo with a restrictor.
Call here,
http://www.turbo-power.com/
1-800-887-2648
ask for cliff... tell him what you are running, what turbo, and all and let me know whats he tells you...
Screaming for Mercy!! wrote:Under the intake manifold? You mean where the stock oil sending unit is? On cold start and just a 2k rev you will get over a 100psi spike, on fully warm motor with oil temps around 180 you will get 80psi.
No he's referring to another row that is directly below the heads intake runners. They face upward at about a 45 degree angle and there are 3 of them. They are the gally's for the right side balance shaft (facing front of engine/crank pulley). The stock oil pressure warning sender is much lower just above the starter toward the back of the engine (trans side) directly next to the knock sensor.
BuiltNBoosted wrote:yeah please let me know what you get for the plugs under the intake mani... thats my next attempt.
I ran those tests all day for ya in regard to the pressures from the three gally's mentioned previously. They maintain very near similar pressures to the stock oil pressure sender gally. On a cold start up (was about 88 degrees ambient here at the time) it runs pretty steady at 87psi @ idle. I then took off at a normal "leave your house" driving characteristics and it would approach 100psi under normal loads and RPM shifts. Pretty standard increase with RPM increase. Takes only a short while for the ambients here in AZ to reach 110 which it did after about an hour and the pressures at idle settled down to around a steady 50 psi. Under load they would approach what cold start up idle pressures were at about 85-90psi. Oil temps off the turbo were 180-200 depending how long i was in traffic. The oil temps typically stay around 180 if I am moving here in the AZ summers. MUCH cooler in the winters. So in a nutshell you know have the pressures for those gally's. I would probably advise using a restrictor if you use those gally's.
JOE L wrote:my biggest concern is without a restrictor i wouldnt feel confortable taking valuable oil volume away from the motor. with a restrictor on the turbo the engine maintains its normal oil pressure/oil volume. the oil sending unit may show 20-25 psi at cruise on a warm engine but the cylinder head may only have 10 psi due to pressure loss from oil flow. so if you dont restrict your turbo the pressure may be lower at the head. i would rather replace a turbo then a motor any day. ive used restrictors on ever turbo build and i havent had a turbo or an engine failure so ill stick with what works.
I have tested this in all variants with and without the turbo and the pressures remain ridiculously low at the exhaust cam. The oil pump seems to flow PLENTY of oil so the pressures do not change much without the turbo feeding from that particular gally. I was also concerned with the pressure from that gally years ago when I first used it before I realized it was the norm for it. JUST in case though I still ALWAYS checked the exhaust cam lobes for any unusual wear from the minuscule oil pressures and to my surprise after all these years and the several I have done the cams and valve stem tips seem to show no signs of it being an issue. Throwing the restrictor in there certainly isn't going to hurt but it does seem to be ok just so you know. I have a bad habit of testing EVERYTHING but it helps me understand exactly what is going on at all times....
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thank you for the time you spent on all this, its all very helpful and i appreciate it
running rich? turn the boost up
yeah. thank you for the time to test it. ill have to look deeper into it and see.
