So I've been thinking about the 3400 lately, and it's looking really cool...

So, I'm liking the even torque band generated from the powerplant, and I've been wondering what it'd be like to mess it up a bit. Now the 3400 "shouldnt" feel the cavalier's weight like the lower hp 4cyl would, so even under natural aspiration the motor hauls.

SO, I've been contemplating on to keep the even powerband, but boost the v6. Now it's time to pick the brains of JBO. Would a T3 Super 60 with something like a .64 a/r turbine wheel (Exhaust side) spool fast enough and reach full boost at say....2500 RPM if the turbo was fed by say both banks of cylinders, and would the volume of air supplied by the compressor be enough to rev the engine to say 5000rpm and not have to worry about operating outside the turbo's efficiency?

Granted that's only like a Stage 1 Turbo...but on that engine, with an upgraded valvetrain, proper tune, proper exhaust, and a port/polish...that little "Stage 1" turbo would make that motor scream....

Now...pick apart my logic. Don't hold back, you won't hurt my feelings. Constructive criticism is how we learn...now...lets talk turbo

I've never seen a compressor map for one of these personally, but the logic behind that kind of airflow to an exhaust turbine that small I'd say you'd have no problem getting a full spool by 2.5k and holding to 5k. Not to sure about overpowering the turbo but it sounds like fun. But how at your age with no degree can you afford a project this big? I mean I'm just a bit older than you and granted I have a kid, but I can only WISH to afford a swap like that. By all means though, do it! I'd personally move up to a .84 a/r with that air volume, but that's my opinion.


"Vroom."
"Yo I wouldn't race him, there's not even an interior in his car man."
"Vrooooooom PSSSSHHH!"
"Oh sh*t. F*ck that, dude..."

Lol, I'm not gonna delve into "How" I can afford the swap. That's a little personal, and at the request of my lawyer, I am not at liberty to speak until the settlement is over.

BUT, at the current moment, I'm not finalized on what I want to do to the car. I love the J body, and the fact that unlike 90% of the cars on the road, I still get compliments for driving something with curves. The car needs the TLC the previous owners neglected (Salvage Title), and I'm torn between an over the top 2200 Turbo build, a Saab Turbo Eco Swap, or a 3400 Turbo

Why am i torn?
2200 turbo build is lightweight, would only require a tranny swap for a 5 spd + the turbo and require acutraments
Saab Eco Swap....I'm not entirely sure what's required. Motor Mounts, tranny mounts, and I'm unsure whether the harness required is just the harness in the bay, or if it includes the harness going through the firewall
3400 swap...it's a big swap. A REALLY big swap, and while I don't doubt I have skills to perform the swap, the biggest problem is weight, how that'll effect handling, and making all the gauges work properly.

...I don't like the Quad4...hate all you want, but something about a proven block that is the EcoTec capable of over 1000 hp just turns me on. Then again, I'm not looking for anything over 300hp. In fact 280hp is what I'm shooting for, as I like driving the car more than building it.

if you shoot for 250 you can do that on the stock 2.2 eco block with a turbo like nothing. Or if you do the LE5 w/ L61 head eco swap you can make 300 all day and not worry (that bottom end will take 400). That swap is only slightly more involved, you need to swap heads (which requires resetting timing) then add an external crank trigger wheel (which takes like 2 bolts.)


1994 Saturn SL2 Home Coming Edition: backup car
2002 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport Coupe: In a Junk Yard
1995 Mazda Miata R-package Class=STR
Sponsored by: Kronos Performance

WPI Class of '12 Mechanical Engineering
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Hey man,

As an owner of a 2200T Cavalier I can tell you that building the 2200 is extremely expensive (when done correctly). Regardless there is a certain joy to the fact that so many said no power can be made of this little engine and yet there is a hand full of us that are either making great numbers or are real close to that point. I lump myself in this group because of the sheer dedication I have up held to completing my build. The real crown jewel of the 2200 turbo's hands down is Ryan. He would be my go to guy for any questions I had on this engine and build. Others would be John Benham, Phil or I suppose myself. I would suggest consulting the other guys first just because I do not have the time to be on here on a daily basis or with any regularity. Oh yeah and the fact that all of them guys know WAY more than I do about the 2200/LN2 motor.

In my opinion I wouldnt do the build of a 2200 again if I had to do this whole nightmare over again I would have went Z24 or ECO. Although I have to admit I am bias. I was absolutely screwed over by several shops and have paid for my project probably 5x since it started. I would say go ECOTEC. The amount of products for this application is comparable to what is available to most import platforms and the fact that you can swap out stock parts and make decent power has a nice appeal to it.

If you want to spent some searious money and go absolutely nuts then build the 3400. Go bigger turbo and look to make numbers north of 500whp. At least that would be my direction if I went V6 turbocharged...

My buddy has a Rotex Supercharged (Centrifical) 3400 in his 2nd Gen Cavalier.

Bone stock minus upgraded valve springs, DIY ported heads, cam'ed and a 3500 upper intake.

Makes just shy of 400whp, runs 11.9's.


Food for thought, there is a guy on V6Z24.com that 3500 swapped his 2nd Gen Cavalier, cammed, ported heads and tuned and made 275whp all-motor.


IMO if your just looking for 280hp, swap an ecotec and put a turbo on that.....much less of a hassle for only those power levels.

A stock ecotec should take that kinda power all day, every day.

newt wrote:

A stock ecotec should take that kinda power all day, every day.

All day every day for how long? How long would a turbo ecotec at 280hp run before needing rebuilt? Would it still be a smooth running ening with wastegate routed in the exhaust, bov recirculated and what not. (Why recirculate the bov? Noise control mainly...)

My biggest thing is, this car is my car, and will probably remain my daily driver. Turbo or not. So things like matching proper injectors to a proper FPR so that I can richen up for performance or lean out and lower boost for better fuel efficiency is a big concern for me.

A super 60 is far too small for a 3400. It's pretty small for a quad4/ECO as is. A .64 A/R is small for that large of an engine too. If you want something cheap-ish, and staying single turbo, I would look into a divided flange Holset HX-35 with larger than a 12cm^2 turbine housing. Otherwise, a larger s250 or GT30 would work nicely, as well.




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Whalesac wrote:A super 60 is far too small for a 3400. It's pretty small for a quad4/ECO as is. A .64 A/R is small for that large of an engine too. If you want something cheap-ish, and staying single turbo, I would look into a divided flange Holset HX-35 with larger than a 12cm^2 turbine housing. Otherwise, a larger s250 or GT30 would work nicely, as well.

Would the bigger turbo spool quick enough, but still push a low enough volume of air that the V6 could run it on stock internals?

If you run each bank of cylinders to each volute of the turbine housing, it'll spool plenty quick. You run the turbo at a lower pressure (making lower power like you want) and still stay within acceptable efficiencies of the turbine map. With a super 60, you'll run off the map pretty quick.




I have no signiture

If you do the Eco swap and want to retain driveability with more fuel when you need it for performance, look into Hahn RaceCraft's PortFueler. It retains the stock injectors (for daily, non boosted driving) and adds an extra 4 into a beautiful, aluminum sheet metal intake controlled by the PortFueler module that you can easily tune to add or reduce the extra amount of fuel with a basic laptop. We put down over 500 HP with this setup and ran low 11's.



Street-Legal 2003 Sunfire 10.58 @ 139 MPH