i have a turbonetics 50 trim roush turbo with a built bottom end. all stock top end just newer and the head is ported and polished. how much would a 2.4 manifold help with the head, i heard the intake manifold is really restrictive on eco. and i know of the mods that need to be done on the 2.4 mani
running rich? turn the boost up
are you talking about the le5 mani? if so there's quite a few threads on the 1st and 2nd page of the performance forum that talk about it. you'll gain top end hp but the one dyno sheet i saw for it showed a loss of torque almost as large as the gain in hp. so take that for what you will.
or are you talking about the ld9 manifold? if so i don't know how that would be a gain over the stock eco manifold.
either way you can portmatch the stock l61 manifold to match the ports on the head that will help increase flow at least a little bit.
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=297315&t=297315 there ya go
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, September 25, 2010 5:58 PM
im talking about the le5. and my head is ported to 37mm so its rather larger
running rich? turn the boost up
yeah, it's somethin to look into, the other thing to look into would be the saab 9-3 intake mani. looks alot like the stock plastic manifold just aluminum. i know it's junk for a n/a engine but for a boosted engine (since that's what it came on) it may be great for ya.
interesting, never knew they were interchangeable, what would have to be modified to make it work
running rich? turn the boost up
the saab manifold? i'm not sure to be completely blunt.
i know pj did some testing with it awhile back but like i said that was on an n/a engine. there's one in the classifieds for sale for i think like 125 or so and that's generally what you can find them for. you may have to just pick one up and modify as you go cuz i don't remember coming across a how to for it. wish i had some more info for ya but for the eco the selection for intake mani's is less than stellar. imo anyway. like i said i was stoked when i found out about the le5 manifold but a drop in torque the way it shows doesn't look all that great to me.
i just ordered a used le5 manifold already drilled for idle and with adapter for 65 shiped
running rich? turn the boost up
as far as i know this is the only manifold (maybe) actually worth a @!#$. and that's only if you can stand the loss in torque in the lower range rpm's.
IamQwibby (Eco Meatcake) wrote:le5 ftmfw
i don't know i hate to continually talk down about it but losing almost as much low end torque as what you gained in horsepower in the top end just seems a little silly, i personally don't wanna lose any of the little torque i've got
blackbirdracing wrote:kevin roskosky wrote:i just ordered a used le5 manifold already drilled for idle and with adapter for 65 shiped
care to elaborate?
2.4 le5 intake manifold with the adapter plate and already drilled for the idle
running rich? turn the boost up
yeay... i meant where you got it for $65... with adapter and such.
i got it used
running rich? turn the boost up
yeah however for that lose of torque thats probly becuase you put a bigger free'er flowing mani on an n/a ecotec. witch will flow easier however you will lose air velocity. witch is were you get your torque from. just like exhuast...free flowing is top end. back pressure is low end. however if you turboed your car.... there would be alot more air going in at one time witch means your car could probly use the little loss of velocity for a bigger gain in the top end. it would probly work out to being less of a low end loss and a higher toip end gain. witch would make it worth it. but at the point of a turbo il just be using the hahn portfueler.
Roofy did some testing using the LE5 intake mani turbocharged. There was a significant gain over a stock L61 main.
Also, i don't know where people are getting their info, the only dyno I've seen back to back is crate engine depot's. Yes there was a torque loss in the 3000-4000rpm range, but after that it was all business, To the tune of almost a 25whp gain at redline. Peak gain was like 13whp. That was on a MAF-fueled cobalt though. You must tune on a jbody to realize these gains....bla...bla...bla. My personal experience was that i didn't notice the loss of torque, probably because i was able to add quite a bit of timing in it in the midrange rpm.
This info is all out there...
oldskool (eco meatcake) wrote:Roofy did some testing using the LE5 intake mani turbocharged. There was a significant gain over a stock L61 main.
Also, i don't know where people are getting their info, the only dyno I've seen back to back is crate engine depot's. Yes there was a torque loss in the 3000-4000rpm range, but after that it was all business, To the tune of almost a 25whp gain at redline. Peak gain was like 13whp. That was on a MAF-fueled cobalt though. You must tune on a jbody to realize these gains....bla...bla...bla. My personal experience was that i didn't notice the loss of torque, probably because i was able to add quite a bit of timing in it in the midrange rpm.
This info is all out there...
I agree my car was HP tuned with it on and damn it was awesome!
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=2&i=444179&t=444179&p=2
2nd page. it shows a gain of 11whp and a loss of 8 torque. obviously this is not throughout the whole powerband, and he said he had bad injectors. and i'm not saying that this is horrible. i would just not want to lose that much torque for that kind of gain in hp personally. the only other dyno result i saw was on crate's website but that was for a cobalt. just showing what i've seen. maybe it is god's gift to eco's but i've decided to take a different route for my n/a build. i simply can't justify losing that much torque for the modest gain in hp.
TUNING!! I saw that incident and there was never a graph posted. I said it in that post, and i'll say it here - TUNING!!! Get at least 30 lb/hr injectors, tune the VE tables, and add some significant midrange timing. (I was up 6* in places, but do what you're comfortable with).
oldskool (eco meatcake) wrote:TUNING!! I saw that incident and there was never a graph posted. I said it in that post, and i'll say it here - TUNING!!! Get at least 30 lb/hr injectors, tune the VE tables, and add some significant midrange timing. (I was up 6* in places, but do what you're comfortable with).
YES! when you get into a situation where you're losing air flow (why else do you think you lose torque and power down low? loss of airflow at low rpms) you can add more timing without getting knock, thats why cars that run in classes with restrictors can run retarded amounts of timing without knock.
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just wondering does anyone know how hard those are to install..??? i heard you have to do some custom work to get it to fit. and get an adapter plate and other %$#@.. if you do this mod and then have someone tune it. does the tunner need to be aware of the manifold mod? its not like its a high dollar performance manifold. so will they need to be aware or will the numbers on the graphs and maps let them know what they need to do to tune for it???
it bolts right on, you need to drill 1 small hole for your iac valve
LE61T PTE6262 Powered
any pics on how to do that corectly?
As far as tuning, you tune it the same way you would without the LE5 mani - dial in fuel with the VE tables FIRST. Once your actual AFRs are the same as the commanded AFRs. I ran mine around 13.5:1, but that is up for debate. I used a PE delay of 3000rpm (also up for debate) Add timing in the midrange (between loads of 80-100kpa and rpm between 2500-4500 or so RPM). You should be able to take care of any perceived or actual torque loss, even on 87 octane. Run it to 7000 rpm, because power should be flat up to about there (not dropping off hard like a stock L61).
**this is how I went about it - what you do with your own car is your responsibility.
