comments? i think the topic speaks for itself, now i am a true dsm man by heart but i do love my ld9 turbo build. whats a better motor, they both have there flaws.
If youre a hardcore DSM guy why do you have to ask? Youre bound to nutswing on what you swear by.
4g63 larger after market, larger pool of very ridiculously well knowledged racers that have worked with the motor in various incarnations, larger knowledge pool, more random options, mix n match..
I'd go 4g.
-Trailblazer SS - not so custom 6.0L - custom intake - custom tune
- (1) 2.4L on an engine stand (1) blown trans (2) good quad trans (1) eco trans = party
dont forget when a 4g loses a race the driver can just turn the boost from 36lbs to 52lbs no problem and rerace, i dont think the ld9 can handle those levels as well as a 4g u know, lol
mike
i make neons go fast
ammfab wrote:dont forget when a 4g loses a race the driver can just turn the boost from 36lbs to 52lbs no problem and rerace, i dont think the ld9 can handle those levels as well as a 4g u know, lol
mike
why dont you think so? its an iron boat anchor block for crist sakes. the cranks are about 20 pounds beefier than they need to be and we have piston and rod combo's available that can take that kind of abuse.
now im not saying it can handle that by any means... but to dis-credit it's ability without even knowing just being ignorant. we havent even begun to find the weaknesses yet, and people are pushing 550+.
take brandon fetter's build for example, its got off the shelf parts, a stock crank, AND its bored .040 over. its taken all the boost he's thrown at it for a very long time and smiled saying please sir, id like some more.
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
If your a true dsm guy as I was, having owned a 475awhp 1g talon, you would know the ld9 is a superior engine as far as reliability goes.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
DSMskyline wrote:If your a true dsm guy as I was, having owned a 475awhp 1g talon, you would know the ld9 is a superior engine as far as reliability goes.
I've seen a lot of high hp 4Gs handle abuse quite well.
-Trailblazer SS - not so custom 6.0L - custom intake - custom tune
- (1) 2.4L on an engine stand (1) blown trans (2) good quad trans (1) eco trans = party
SpyhunteR wrote:DSMskyline wrote:If your a true dsm guy as I was, having owned a 475awhp 1g talon, you would know the ld9 is a superior engine as far as reliability goes.
I've seen a lot of high hp 4Gs handle abuse quite well.
I have too, and but they seem to be broke more than on the road..... IMHO, they both have their advantages and disadvantages...... Jusgt depends how much money you wanna spend.....
P&P Tuning
420.5whp / 359.8wtq
Mine was fully built, the motors are damn near bullet proof. Tuning the thing killed me. I think I went through 3-4 tuning setups before I finally sold the car.
"Oil Leak ? What oil Leak ? Oh, Thats Just The Sweat From All The HorsePower!!"
z yaaaa wrote:ammfab wrote:dont forget when a 4g loses a race the driver can just turn the boost from 36lbs to 52lbs no problem and rerace, i dont think the ld9 can handle those levels as well as a 4g u know, lol
mike
why dont you think so? its an iron boat anchor block for crist sakes. the cranks are about 20 pounds beefier than they need to be and we have piston and rod combo's available that can take that kind of abuse.
now im not saying it can handle that by any means... but to dis-credit it's ability without even knowing just being ignorant. we havent even begun to find the weaknesses yet, and people are pushing 550+.
take brandon fetter's build for example, its got off the shelf parts, a stock crank, AND its bored .040 over. its taken all the boost he's thrown at it for a very long time and smiled saying please sir, id like some more.
thats fine and dandy, but in the end (as of this day time and age) a dsm will make more power and go faster than an ld9 just because the aftermaket support and r&d into them. when somebody puts that much work into the ld9 to figure everything out it may be a different story. as for reliability well thats a different story.
mike
i make neons go fast
QWK LN2 (needs an @ss whoopin) wrote:SpyhunteR wrote:DSMskyline wrote:If your a true dsm guy as I was, having owned a 475awhp 1g talon, you would know the ld9 is a superior engine as far as reliability goes.
I've seen a lot of high hp 4Gs handle abuse quite well.
I have too, and but they seem to be broke more than on the road..... IMHO, they both have their advantages and disadvantages...... Jusgt depends how much money you wanna spend.....
I tend to see them more on the road then breaking.
-Trailblazer SS - not so custom 6.0L - custom intake - custom tune
- (1) 2.4L on an engine stand (1) blown trans (2) good quad trans (1) eco trans = party
SpyhunteR wrote:QWK LN2 (needs an @ss whoopin) wrote:SpyhunteR wrote:DSMskyline wrote:If your a true dsm guy as I was, having owned a 475awhp 1g talon, you would know the ld9 is a superior engine as far as reliability goes.
I've seen a lot of high hp 4Gs handle abuse quite well.
I have too, and but they seem to be broke more than on the road..... IMHO, they both have their advantages and disadvantages...... Jusgt depends how much money you wanna spend.....
I tend to see them more on the road then breaking.
Well you cant see them when they are in the garage.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 23, 2010 9:30 PM
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
My brothers 90 Laser RS-T has been running 20+psi out of B16g for 2 years so far...no issues at all(Except bald tires),and he mistreats it daily trying to blow it up(Its his daily and he has another motor waiting), no luck yet. He even unhooked the wastegate and let run lean for a couple weeks(So lean under boost the wideband just went blank),couldnt blow it up then either.... In fact his 4g has been more reliable than my LD9, hands down. In short, the more u baby a 4g the less time its on the road. Severe abuse and 15k mile oil changes are the key to a 4g63's longevity.
140k miles on the car(Had broken timing belt when he got it,Bent valves, and pistons were dented from valve contact)
Car is modded though,B16g,HKS 264/272 cams,fmic,3inch exhaust,keydiver chip,s-afc II and AEM wideband.(Not that mods do damage to help longevity of the engine. Just goes to show that even modded 4Gs are very reliable).
On the flip side,my LD9 has been nothing but problems,coil issues,plug issues,trans grinds,front brakes,new cat and muffler,map sensor,TPS,CTS,and numerous other odds and ends.
true but.... on the dsm I worked on (brothers 1g). we made 475awhp on not that much of aftermarket parts. Head wasnt ported, just bigger valves. Mitsu head gasket. Rods and pistons were available just like a ld9, (crank for the stroker motor set up from another mitsu), t/b and intake manifold were stock, homemade intercooler pipes, even a mass air sensor off a chevy, turbo manifold was stock from evo 3 ported, turbo wasnt anything special, upgraded cams( so there are more cam options for the 4g63), 3 inch exhuast leading to a 2.5inch cat back. and you can buy e85 anywere. DSMlink is just like HPtuners. Tranny options are way better for the mitsu guys. / had a shep stage 3 trans in this car.
I am a fan of both motors, but for the very few j body's making 3-400 hp and running out of options, their are way too many 4g63's is just getting started.
I also been to a few j body bashs before (had a blast), but went to a dsm/evo shootout in ohio and the slowest car there was a low 14, where at the bash it would be a handful of cars running 14's and 13's where as at the dsm/evo shoot out there were street driven stock turbo cars running 11's/10's.
(dont get me wrong, I grew up on ld9s and will always be a fan of them as much as i like the 4g63s)
carry on
ammfab wrote:z yaaaa wrote:ammfab wrote:dont forget when a 4g loses a race the driver can just turn the boost from 36lbs to 52lbs no problem and rerace, i dont think the ld9 can handle those levels as well as a 4g u know, lol
mike
why dont you think so? its an iron boat anchor block for crist sakes. the cranks are about 20 pounds beefier than they need to be and we have piston and rod combo's available that can take that kind of abuse.
now im not saying it can handle that by any means... but to dis-credit it's ability without even knowing just being ignorant. we havent even begun to find the weaknesses yet, and people are pushing 550+.
take brandon fetter's build for example, its got off the shelf parts, a stock crank, AND its bored .040 over. its taken all the boost he's thrown at it for a very long time and smiled saying please sir, id like some more.
thats fine and dandy, but in the end (as of this day time and age) a dsm will make more power and go faster than an ld9 just because the aftermaket support and r&d into them. when somebody puts that much work into the ld9 to figure everything out it may be a different story. as for reliability well thats a different story.
mike
LOL head wasnt ported. ive seen 4G63 heads... they are literally twice as large as an LD9 head stock for stock.
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
z yaaaa wrote:LOL head wasnt ported. ive seen 4G63 heads... they are literally twice as large as an LD9 head stock for stock.
cuz ld9 heads dont flow for @!#$. i have seen a 6 bolt 4g63 make over 700hp running 8sec quarter miles and still be street drivable (in other words reliable) ihave never seen an ld9 do that. 6 bolt 4g's are better than an ld9 hands down, for reliability and potential. 7bolt 4g's can kiss my ass tho.
Street driven does not equal reliable. Thats probably the stupidest comment Ive ever seen.
For example. My cousins Fox-Body. Runs mid tens but over heats horribly driving through town. Ya he could drive it every day but I couldnt imagine it would be a good idea.
Ever heard of the Iron Law?
98xploder wrote:z yaaaa wrote:LOL head wasnt ported. ive seen 4G63 heads... they are literally twice as large as an LD9 head stock for stock.
cuz ld9 heads dont flow for @!#$. i have seen a 6 bolt 4g63 make over 700hp running 8sec quarter miles and still be street drivable (in other words reliable) ihave never seen an ld9 do that. 6 bolt 4g's are better than an ld9 hands down, for reliability and potential. 7bolt 4g's can kiss my ass tho.
comparing an N/A head made for 150 hp and a TURBO head made for what, 200? god id hope it had more flow.
i take it you havent seen what ammfab did to an LD9 head yet? maybe go check it out, mm k?
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
yeah. i have seen it. fact is stock ld9 heads dont flow for @!#$. you know it and i know it. just like you said people on q4f were saying no ld9 head could outflow a stock 086? sorry, dont remember reading that. i have seen plenty of people say stock for stock the 086 flows better. im sure ported for ported would be a tough call though. all im saying is in stock form, the ld9 head sucks for one, and i'll even take it a step further and say you will not get an ld9 to make the same power as a 4g63t reliably without oiling system mods. stock oiling setup sucks. thats why you see ld9's with rod knocks all the time. its usually the #3 that spins too.
I hardly ever see 2.4s with rod knock. I lost one bearing due to a mistake in assembly, and have only come across one that came in for service that had a spun rod bearing. the car had a high mile junk yard engine in it and he admitted that the car may be a little low on oil. Apparently a little means that it only had 2 quarts in it.
If the 2.4 head sucks so much how come some of the members here have managed to run 12s with it? For that matter, at least two of them were on stock bottom ends as well (from what I recall).
In my small circle of friends we have 3 DSMs, all broke down, I had one and my buddy has 2. They have been nothing but trouble since day 1.
I had a turbo Z24, and now a S/C Z24, each pushing 10 psi and now problems at all besides a blown turbo seal. A built 4g63 may be faster, but at that point what do you really need for the street anyway, you can only go like 40 in most places.
.
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mitdr774 wrote:I hardly ever see 2.4s with rod knock. I lost one bearing due to a mistake in assembly, and have only come across one that came in for service that had a spun rod bearing. the car had a high mile junk yard engine in it and he admitted that the car may be a little low on oil. Apparently a little means that it only had 2 quarts in it.
If the 2.4 head sucks so much how come some of the members here have managed to run 12s with it? For that matter, at least two of them were on stock bottom ends as well (from what I recall).
Sucks is a subjective term. Your definition of sucks and my definition of sucks may be totally different.
CNFX>vbz wrote: I just had my head ported and polished and flowbenched. Stock my 2.4 head flowed 125 cfm on the exhaust side and about 210 on the intake side.
For comparisons sake:
LD9 head
INT. 210cfm
EXH. 125cfm
D16 head
INT. 216cfm
EXH. 161cfm
B16A2
INT. 216cfm
EXH. 173cfm
B18C5 head
Stock: Ported:
INT. 248cfm
EXH. 196cfm
B18C1 Head
Stock: Ported:
INT. 236cfm
EXH. 179cfm
NEON 2.0L 1st gen
INT. 202cfm
EXH. 125cfm
AUDI 1.8T 20V
INT. 200cfm
EXH. 184cfm
TOYOTA 7MGTE 24V
INT. 197cfm
EXH. 141cfm
Compared to any of these heads the ld9 head is nothing special. It flows worse than Honda's D16 head, which is probably one of their worst flowing head they made in recent years. And almost every head is designed for an engine much smaller than the ld9 (with the exception of the 7MGTE, but it should be considered that the volume per cylinder is less in the 7MGTE when compared to the LD9)
So, if one was to say the lD9 head sucks... Who I am I to argue?
By the way... all the above CFM ratings are for stock heads, not ported heads. I repeat all the heads above are stock!
mitdr774 wrote:I hardly ever see 2.4s with rod knock. I lost one bearing due to a mistake in assembly, and have only come across one that came in for service that had a spun rod bearing. the car had a high mile junk yard engine in it and he admitted that the car may be a little low on oil. Apparently a little means that it only had 2 quarts in it.
If the 2.4 head sucks so much how come some of the members here have managed to run 12s with it? For that matter, at least two of them were on stock bottom ends as well (from what I recall).
i never said you couldnt make an ld9 fast did i? i simply said IN STOCK FORM the head sucks, and so does the oiling system. maybe where youre from, youre just lucky not to see all the rod issues i have seen. i have owned several ld9 cars and have not had one that hasnt given me problems. in short, i wouldnt have done any serious mods to any of them without a serious build without internals. for now, i'll stick with my quad4 and my 1jz. they both seem pretty reliable.
