I know im gonna get flamed for this one so ive put my suit on and ready..

I know as a general rule with a good tune and turbo the eco is able to handle 300whp. Now what im curious about is it seems with the charger this is not a reality. I think it was airtonics that blew his motor on the 2.6 or .8 pulley which cant be much more then 260 hp.

So im curious.

Is there something about the charger that makes it harder on the engine at higher hp levels, or is past blown motors just about a bad tune? Is it just the fact the charger spews hot hot air?

Reason for asking.....future plans involve a fair amount of mods and a eventual goal of 300whp. Before you say it I know its a long shot on the m62..(although has been done on the cobalt) Plans include a TVS or a mp90 whatever is available at the time.

Getting 300whp on a M62 is not going to happen without a motor build.

A charger does make heat, and heat is a enemy.

To me no reason a Eco should blow on a M62 (if setup properly), unless it is a bad tune.



FU Tuning

So even with proper cooling like the dual pass h/e, lots of meth id have cooling issues? Keep in mind I am very doubtfull ill be keeping the m62.


Im more curious as to why 300whp is able to be done with a turbo without a engine build but the m62 is not.

That being said wouldnt a tvs make it easy since its producing way less heat? so the iat's should be easier to handle.

Turbo is more efficient.

Charger is less efficient.

Dual pass, a good h/e is all part of setting it up right.

The M62 just can't push enough efficient boost to get the power your talking about.



FU Tuning

10-4

How is it the lsj guys are able to get to those levels?

Has anyone tried bolting the tvs up to the stock eco?

Philly D wrote:10-4

How is it the lsj guys are able to get to those levels?

Has anyone tried bolting the tvs up to the stock eco?

1 I do not think many LSJ's are getting 300whp on a M62. If any.

I have had 2 friends with LSJ's. 1 with stage 2 kit, but stage 3 pulley, GM header, and exhaust tuned made 236whp. The other with stage 2, intake, and tuned was 224whp. I know some claim way more, but I do not see it.



FU Tuning

ive seen a stock lsj with only a tune a bad mab header and 2.5 exhaust make 239

Didnt juicenboost make like 249 with a 3.1 pulley, header and exhaust and tune?

Either way it sounds like heat is the issue which I kinda gathered.

Back to the TVS though. No one has tried it on the stock eco? Id imagine it would be a much cooler charge on the stock pulley then the m62 would be at a 2.8

I made 248whp w/ a 2.9" on my red cav, check my mod list for what was done to it.



ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician

Philly D wrote:Didnt juicenboost make like 249 with a 3.1 pulley, header and exhaust and tune?

Yes I made 249whp on a stock eco, phenolic spacers, ls1tb, 3.0 full exhaust and big h/e and dual pass. I also had Ryan aka Qwk Ln2 hpt my car. The motor was 100% stock. Iirc Airtonics put down like 297 whp with a built eco cams and meth on the dyno. His vids are still on streetfire last I checked.

JUCNBST wrote:

Philly D wrote:Didnt juicenboost make like 249 with a 3.1 pulley, header and exhaust and tune?

Yes I made 249whp on a stock eco, phenolic spacers, ls1tb, 3.0 full exhaust and big h/e and dual pass. I also had Ryan aka Qwk Ln2 hpt my car. The motor was 100% stock. Iirc Airtonics put down like 297 whp with a built eco cams and meth on the dyno. His vids are still on streetfire last I checked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOwBr2GyvcE

that motor has a new home. And just as example, it already made more power with a turbo quite easily.

^ Im aware turbo makes a ton more power. I actually just sold my turbo, and intake manifold. Supercharger is enough for me and my goals.

Just trying to hit my goal of 300 without building an engine but it sounds not possible.

it took me a built motor, safety tune to make 323 on 14-16psi.... sc just wont do it...

Alwell...2.4 eco hydrid with TVS should put me north of 300.

for quite the hefty price, yeah it could.

BuiltNBoosted wrote:for quite the hefty price, yeah it could.

Hefty? You can do a hybrid for less then 800$ and a used tvs for $1200 or so (assuming the person already has the sc setup)

FYI I ran my hybrid at 350 whp for over a month DD...

yeah if he wants to follow in your foot steps of blowing motors up... then sure, budget build it...

Well this post is going a lot off topic


But to be fair Phil did have the wrong block to start with when it comes to the power handling capabilities of that motor.

Im sure the forged bottom end will handle 350 all day long.

Doesnt matter really what path I end up taking in the end it will be supercharged.

I am / was more curious about the reasoning and theory why the eco could handle 300 whp turboed but not with the charger.

this last motor didn't blow, the bottom end is good. The head was bad.

Ok. Didn't know the specifics. I knew one motor was bad due to the rods being the non forged ones.

Philly D wrote:Ok. Didn't know the specifics. I knew one motor was bad due to the rods being the non forged ones.

Yeah the first Hybrid went due to a malfunctioning primary injector, the second one put down 346 whp on 12 psi and then one day otw home from work an intake valve sheered off. There was no contact in the valve relief, so it wasn't a contact it just sheered off. It was a patriot stage 2 head, w/ patriot valves, 1 intake valve off cylinder 1 went, we all had assumed it was another injector problem, but the map, harness, main injectors, and fpr was replaced on the second motor. Ryan, Evilution, Sam (yellowcavy), myself, jay consentino, and Steve all dropped our jaws when the head came off and saw the bottom end fine, minus some obvious damage to the piston from the valve head bouncing around.

Philly D wrote:

I am / was more curious about the reasoning and theory why the eco could handle 300 whp turboed but not with the charger.

look at it this way, jon could have made 300+ had it not been 110% humidity and hot as hell. I now have that motor and made 323 pretty easily with a budget turbo system of under $2,000. The SC just merely cant move the air needed efficiently. That what it boils down to... heat soak and hot IAT's.

Plus its not so much that one can handle it over the other, its that one can make it over the other without extra stress or problems.

How did I miss this thread. OP to respond to the first quesiton, why a turbo can make 300 wheel and not blow the engine and why a blower can only make 250. Remember that blower takes power off the crank to run. The rods and pistons can very well be seeing 300 hp, BUT if the blower needs 50 hp to run, you would only see 250 at the wheels on the dyno. Now if you somehow used another engine to power the blower and did not need to take power away from the crank to power the blow, that same car would make 300 on the dyno. I'm not sure if that explanation exactly makes sense. Its like why zzp will rate a fuel injector for 350hp on a blower and 400 hp turbo. But are acutally flowing enough air and enough fuel to make 400 hp, and both are making 400 hp, except the blower is using 50 of those hp to keep spinning.

Also, the m62 does support enough airflow to make 400 hp, but you have going to have to build an engine with high comp, a ported head, custom camrs, and likely a custom header to get there (and e85 and meth and ect). Or just throw it on a K20 with cams, and exhaust and meth.

*Disclaimer, power draw of the blower is only estimated and rounded to make math easier.


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Makes sense...totally forgot about the parasitic loss of the blower. So heat an parasitic loss.

Ive always been curious why you can make 300 whp on 42' and with a blower youd need 80's(est)

Philly D wrote:
Back to the TVS though. No one has tried it on the stock eco? Id imagine it would be a much cooler charge on the stock pulley then the m62 would be at a 2.8

The theory is that you'll be limited to the larger pulleys or risk blow the engine due to the power levels. Yes a Harrop will more cooler air than a M62 with a 2.8.

Philly D wrote:Alwell...2.4 eco hydrid with TVS should put me north of 300.

Sticking with atleast 10:1 compression, yes. But what discouraged me from that route is that the only way to accurately control timing would require you to use a custom internal trigger wheel. I also wouldnt trust it with an Alpha-N ECU either.

My personal experience on running a 2.9" pulley and 63# injectors with the stock pump(95k miles on it), and no meth, my injectors are maxxed.




its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa