Hi,
I already read through the stickys and I didn't see anyone mention if the Ecotec 2.2 GM Supercharger (kit # 17800003) could be used with the stock exhaust manifold on my 2005 Sunfire or if I would have to get an aftermarket header?
Also, any direct feedback on these supercharger kits would be helpful, like if they come with the 5 or 6 groove pulley? And if they need any additional cooling other than the intercool system that is built into the head that comes with the kit?
And I apologize, I know this topic has probably already been beaten to death.
if you know its been beaten to death, then read it all. there is 1 very good thread with every single bit of info you need about this....go find it.
EvoFire wrote:if you know its been beaten to death, then read it all. there is 1 very good thread with every single bit of info you need about this....go find it.
Making mental note....EvoFire is a douche bag. Thanks, buddy.
So you ask questions that have already been asked and answered. Then admit to knowing they have all been answered already, and want people to answer them again. yet I am the douche bag...ok...sure...I will continue driving my supercharged sunfire and make sure not to answer anything you ask...and i am sure others will follow suit. Lazyness isn't well liked around here.
EvoFire wrote:if you know its been beaten to death, then read it all. there is 1 very good thread with every single bit of info you need about this....go find it.
You could always link him to it. Not many people on the org these days and id link him to it if I could... The more people on the site, the merrier.
It's not lazy, I've used every combination of "supercharge" and "exhaust" possible with the site search engine and all I get is zero. A simple yes or no would have sufficed, but you had to go out of your way to be a dick.
And FYI, I'm not sure you're aware, but in the outside world most people think any form of a Jbody car is a joke and not worth modding. Us fans are very much in the minority, so if you come across someone who shares this common interest, such as myself, maybe lend a hand and be a little more friendly. Sorry I called you a douche bag...now you made me feel bad.
You can use the M62 with stock exhaust components, however that would become the bottleneck in the system. People have run the kit with stock exhaust and had no issues. Most people tend to upgrade, just to uncork the system. You'll need a heat exchanger in addition to what comes with the kit, zzp makes a nice unit. I can't remember if a pump is included in the GM kit or not. I want to say that the kit uses a 5 rib pulley, i do remember having to cut a rib off of the stock cobalt ss belt.
Here is the M62 guide that was compiled by the members of this site
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40&i=183438&t=183438#183438
Don't let the welcoming committee scare you off. Ask questions, ignore the BS
Thanks for the links, guys. And I'm not gonna get scared off, I love my sunfire and the ecotec motor and this is one of the few sites dedicated to both so I guess I'm stuck hanging around here. I'm sure I just caught EvoFire on a bad day. Again, sorry for calling you a D-bag, Mr. Evo, it was just a knee jerk reaction.
You absolutely can run the supercharger with the stock exhaust manifold. I would even bet the GM reflash is set up for just such a circumstance, I don't remember mention of and upgraded exhaust in the install instructions. You will get much better performance out of your setup if you upgrade to a header, but you will need to be tuned. Do you plan on running the GM reflash or do you have other tuning solutions in mind? I don't know who pissed in Evo's cheerios but I have seen much worse noob starts that what you posted.
Sparkey05 wrote:You absolutely can run the supercharger with the stock exhaust manifold. I would even bet the GM reflash is set up for just such a circumstance, I don't remember mention of and upgraded exhaust in the install instructions. You will get much better performance out of your setup if you upgrade to a header, but you will need to be tuned. Do you plan on running the GM reflash or do you have other tuning solutions in mind? I don't know who pissed in Evo's cheerios but I have seen much worse noob starts that what you posted.
I will probably upgrade the exhaust manifold with a pacesetter a ways down the road, but for now I was hoping I could get away with the stock exhaust manifold. As far as tuning it, I'd go with the GM reflash if it means keeping my stock exhaust manifold but I'd rather go with a knowledgeable tuner using HP Tuner software. Am I limited to dealerships for the GM reflash?
Thanks
Yea you are limited to a dealership for the reflash. You are also limited post reflash. Once your ECU is given the reflash the program is locked, so if you want to retune you need a new ECU.
Sparkey05 wrote:Yea you are limited to a dealership for the reflash. You are also limited post reflash. Once your ECU is given the reflash the program is locked, so if you want to retune you need a new ECU.
This may be as stupid question, but I take it the GM reflash compensates or recognizes the supercharger and adjusts for it? How well does it adjust? I've read in other post people complain about the reflash causing their cars to run rich?
John Potetz wrote:Sparkey05 wrote:Yea you are limited to a dealership for the reflash. You are also limited post reflash. Once your ECU is given the reflash the program is locked, so if you want to retune you need a new ECU.
This may be as stupid question, but I take it the GM reflash compensates or recognizes the supercharger and adjusts for it? How well does it adjust? I've read in other post people complain about the reflash causing their cars to run rich?
The reflash is known to run rich. I was seeing AFRs in the 10s at WOT. A smaller pulley solved that
I believe you can send a PCM out to Extratorq and they can do the reflash for you if you want avoid dealerships.
In my opinion, the reflash is good for what it is, an off the shelf tune for a specific mod. Having someone use HPT will be much more beneficial in the long run if you intend to add additional modifications.
Thanks, I think my best option is to start with the GM reflash, either at a dealership or through extratorq, and go from there. If I end up needing a smaller pulley then no bid deal. I'm not looking to build the fastest sunfire, just one that will be fun to drive and maybe put a scare in some A-hole driving a 60K BMW.
You don't need to go the the dealer to get the reflash done. Send a spare ecu to
THESE GUYS they can do it and send it back. We used them when we supercharged David Fairhust's auto LSS and all you need to do is a relearn on the ecu and it was good to go. Also another cheap upgrade would be an lsj exhaust manifold they have a 2.5" collector as to the d shaped 1.75" jbody collector.
AL1A5 wrote:Don't let the welcoming committee scare you off. Ask questions, ignore the BS
THIS. Plenty of us here willing to answer your questions as long as they aren't asking about ridiculous projects that the OP will never have the skill, time, or resources to accomplish.
All the information posted above was spot on. You won't have any problems running the m62 setup with the stock exhaust. If you plan to upgrade in the future you won't be disappointed as there is plenty to gain out of it. The reflash is what it is. As much as I hate it, the car ran just fine with it and I never had to be worried about it. The jbody PCM is a bastard child of PCMs and so there aren't many people that REALLY know how to work with them. Just like upgrading the exhaust you would notice substantial gains out of a custom tune but it's not 100% necessary.
Where I really think you should upgrade right away is the intercooler setup. When I first had my car it was supercharged with the gm kit and therefore non-intercooled. After even a few pulls I could feel the car losing lots of power. The air coming into the motor was just way too hot, like 180 *F hot. After awhile it felt like the car would have been faster N/A than supercharged because the PCM pulls that much timing advance out to compensate for the hot air. The ZZP S3 heat exchanger is a decent upgrade and is pretty cheap for what it is. It does NOT come with the intercooler pump or bracket. Those two items would run you another 115-160 bucks depending on what bracket you decided to go with. Not only will the car run way better but it will be much easier on everything as well.
Andy already posted the best collection of information on this topic above but I'll reiterate. Read over this a few times if you still aren't sure about a few things:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=40&i=183438&t=183438#183438
And of course, a shameless advertisement of my m62 progress thread if you were looking for more ideas and options. Pictures of the heat exchanger install on the first page:
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=46&i=470090&t=470090
"In Oldskool we trust"
Y3llowCav, Sparkey05, Alia5 and Jucnbst, thanks, you've guys have been a lot of help and it's greatly appreciated. I can' t wait to get started on this thing. I've haven't done a lot of work on modern cars so reflashing and relearning ECU's and tuning software is all pretty new to me. I've spent my previous days wrenching on old air-cooled VW's and "Patsy", my '71 Ford Torino GT. She's bad ass and I love driving her but you can literally hear the gas being guzzled by her monster Cleveland motor. My Sunfire has been by DD for almost 2 years now and I've always been impressed with the stock ecotec and how punchy it is, so the natural progression for me is to want to make it faster. Plus, with gas being so friggin' expensive I want to build myself a more fuel-friendly speed demon. So again, thanks for the help, I definitely need it.
FYI, I changed my name to Mr. Beans. That's what I call my sunfire. Long story, but I'm sure like most of you, I name all my cars...
Good stuff. For what you're looking for the supercharger is definitely the way to go. 99.9% bolt on and dead nuts reliable.
"In Oldskool we trust"
JUCNBST wrote: . . . we supercharged David Fairhust's auto LSS and all you need to do is a relearn on the ecu and it was good to go.
Is there a build thread on this? Interested in seeing how the transmission is holding the power! Is that the only M62 auto L61? Don't think I've heard of any others!
mr.beans wrote:I've spent my previous days wrenching on old air-cooled VW's and "Patsy", my '71 Ford Torino GT. She's bad ass and I love driving her but you can literally hear the gas being guzzled by her monster Cleveland motor.
Need to post pics of the Torino GT! Or videos - that works too.
Tony Ellis wrote:Need to post pics of the Torino GT! Or videos - that works too.
I'll try and get some pics of Patsy loaded up on this site. I'll spare you all from pics of my sunfire for now. It's pretty bland, I'll probably be the only one around with a boosted gold sunfire, but that's the way I like it anyways.
Y3llowCav wrote:
No there are a few. Luke's is one of them.
Sweet - thanks for the link!
mr.beans wrote:
I'll try and get some pics of Patsy loaded up on this site. I'll spare you all from pics of my sunfire for now. It's pretty bland, I'll probably be the only one around with a boosted gold sunfire, but that's the way I like it anyways.
Sweet - look forward to the Patsy pics. Can always throw a couple of the vdubs in too . . can never have too many pics or vids on this site.
John Potetz wrote:Thanks for the links, guys. And I'm not gonna get scared off, I love my sunfire and the ecotec motor and this is one of the few sites dedicated to both so I guess I'm stuck hanging around here. I'm sure I just caught EvoFire on a bad day. Again, sorry for calling you a D-bag, Mr. Evo, it was just a knee jerk reaction.
yup bad day....but also a bit bothered.
95% of us here work our tails off to find answers to our problems, or create them, custom parts, custom tunes, whatever. So it bothers me a bit when people come asking for info to be spoon fed.
I am sorry i came across how i did. and your apology is accepted....now read the link you have been given and get the blower setup on.
I'm running a 3.1" ZZP Pulley, Cobalt SS injectors (Green ones), adjustable FPR, GM Reflash (by
http://www.exatorq.com/StockReflashing), ZZP heat exchanger with Dualpass with great results. I do run rich and every once in a while the gm reflash gets the idea that I want ALL THE FUEL IT CAN PUMP. For now, it makes the car very fun to drive, a ton more power.
I'll be upgrading my exhaust soon, waiting on my welder. 2.5" with high flow cat and LSJ header.
