i have a 2001 cavalier and looking for some boost options. I'm new to this subject i have always done body work air suspension and custom interior work. i want power now. i have the 2.4l twin cam. can anyone tell me the best way to go. already blew the engine once and i don't really want to do it again. it is also an everyday driver so i want reliability. all advice is welcome
Do not go near RSM. I speak from experience with their products.
Do yourself a favour - put a turbo on your car and be happy, instead of putting that charger on and being pretty upset.
-Chris-
-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Brandt, there really is no defenite answer. You have to figure out how much power you want & how much money you want to spend. Those 2 things play a major role.
When you can figure out those things, we can help you a bit further. Untill then, anyone who answers with the "best" option for you is expressing their opinion...not fact.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
I disagree with that whole-heartedly. Have you seen BOTH of these systems in action???? I have. And I can say hitting 6 psi of boost BARELY at redline is not impressive at all.
Have you been to RSM's Facility? Have you recieved direct service from them?
I have.
Opinion? I think not. It's direct experience that I speak from. I have experienced the RSM charger, GM charger and a turbocharger all on an LD9... and I can say if you're gonna go S/C you should go with the GM charger. It is better fit to our cars and much further researched.
I know you're all over the boost forum lately, and I respect you for helping people. But you're really really new to boost and you're handing out a LOT of advice... not all of which is correct. When I DO give advice, it is from experience NOT opinion.
If you want to boost a J-body and have a lot of fun with it and have NO restrictions... do yourself a favour and turbocharge. A properly built and sized system at a moderately low boost level will be every bit as reliable as the GM supercharger kit. When you start pushing the LD9 the way I have done, you start to break stuff... lots of stuff. If you want to be safe, just stay within a safe power level and don't get greedy.
Whatever you do, avoid that cam-driven supercharger setup that RSM offers. I'd much rather spend half the money and get twice the reliablity and upgradablitity and control than be screwed over by them again.
-Chris-
-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
SunfighterGT wrote:I disagree with that whole-heartedly. Have you seen BOTH of these systems in action???? I have. And I can say hitting 6 psi of boost BARELY at redline is not impressive at all.
Have you been to RSM's Facility? Have you recieved direct service from them?
I have.
Opinion? I think not. It's direct experience that I speak from. I have experienced the RSM charger, GM charger and a turbocharger all on an LD9... and I can say if you're gonna go S/C you should go with the GM charger. It is better fit to our cars and much further researched.
I know you're all over the boost forum lately, and I respect you for helping people. But you're really really new to boost and you're handing out a LOT of advice... not all of which is correct. When I DO give advice, it is from experience NOT opinion.
If you want to boost a J-body and have a lot of fun with it and have NO restrictions... do yourself a favour and turbocharge. A properly built and sized system at a moderately low boost level will be every bit as reliable as the GM supercharger kit. When you start pushing the LD9 the way I have done, you start to break stuff... lots of stuff. If you want to be safe, just stay within a safe power level and don't get greedy.
Whatever you do, avoid that cam-driven supercharger setup that RSM offers. I'd much rather spend half the money and get twice the reliablity and upgradablitity and control than be screwed over by them again.
-Chris-
JDM Civic Hatch
Status: Parting Out Turbo Kit....
14.224 @ 102.01MPH @ 5.5psi.... 2.3 60'
Next: Civic JDM B16a2 w/GSR LSD Turbo - Goal 300whp 1400lbs...
I have not had direct experience with the 2.4L Twin Cam but since you have a 2001 I would recommend the GM charger. I hear great things and has great reliability. Furthermore, GM offers a reflash so you won't have to spend much time tuning as you would with a turbo setup.
I purchased the RSM kit for my Ecotec and I do not yet regret it. They're a good company with great service but I cannot speak for the LD9 engine. I think you should do more research before coming to any decision and you should avoid thinking what is the 'best' setup for you. Would you like a greater amount of power potential or would you like a certain amount of power but not over-the-top? I don't know if that sounds right but what I mean is its one of the choices you have to make whether to go turbo or s/c. How much money do you have? How much time do you have? How much power do you want? Reliability? The questions are endless, you have to do some research and reading before making a decision.
Blown.
in the way of turbo's what all is involved sence i have not seen a bolt on for the 2.4l. like i said i am realy new at this and money is not a problem i was about to do lambo's and then every show i got to everyone has it my frieds are starting to go for speen one has a talon tsi and the other an eclise gxs i know mine won't come close to that but faster is better. do they make manifold and chips for my cavi or is everything custom?
also what the the options if i want to stay stock internals time is my issue right now i'm working 72 hour weeks but that money is going to the turbo or supercharger. by the way thanx for all the advice i just hate learning things the hard way
since you are sorta new to this whole boost stuff. get the gm s/c and a bunch of bolt on mod's.
forget them stupid lambo doors and use that $ for more go fast parts. your car isnt a lambo.
Since time and knowledge are issues then do a search in the boost forums for the GM supercharger kit. I'm pretty sure if you contact a GM dealer near you and ask about the kit they'll be able to help you out. It would be a great place to start since a reflash (computer programming) is included and it can be serviced and is backed by an authorized GM dealer. There is alot of tuning and, therefore, time involved with certain setups, especially turbo's. Just like Jake was trying to say, the GM charger will give you good experience with boost and you'll learn alot.
Also, don't think for a minute that you can't compete with your friends' cars. A turbo will get you there but, like said earlier, tuning and time are necessary. Granted, the charger has limited power capabilities but those that have it on their cars are completely satisfied. You can do things like swap on smaller pullies and add alcohol injection to improve the setup.
Blown.
SunfighterGT wrote:I disagree with that whole-heartedly. Have you seen BOTH of these systems in action???? I have. And I can say hitting 6 psi of boost BARELY at redline is not impressive at all.
Have you been to RSM's Facility? Have you recieved direct service from them?
I have.
Opinion? I think not. It's direct experience that I speak from. I have experienced the RSM charger, GM charger and a turbocharger all on an LD9... and I can say if you're gonna go S/C you should go with the GM charger. It is better fit to our cars and much further researched.
I know you're all over the boost forum lately, and I respect you for helping people. But you're really really new to boost and you're handing out a LOT of advice... not all of which is correct. When I DO give advice, it is from experience NOT opinion.
If you want to boost a J-body and have a lot of fun with it and have NO restrictions... do yourself a favour and turbocharge. A properly built and sized system at a moderately low boost level will be every bit as reliable as the GM supercharger kit. When you start pushing the LD9 the way I have done, you start to break stuff... lots of stuff. If you want to be safe, just stay within a safe power level and don't get greedy.
Whatever you do, avoid that cam-driven supercharger setup that RSM offers. I'd much rather spend half the money and get twice the reliablity and upgradablitity and control than be screwed over by them again.
-Chris-
I think you totally misunderstood what I was saying.
I was saying that if he has a certain power goal and a certain price range he wants to spend figured out, than yes, someone can point him in the right direction. If he doesn't know if he wants 200 whp or 500 whp, how can we say get either or? Granted you can get both under turbo boost but maybe he has other reasons why he wouldn't want to run a turbo setup. There are alot of questions that he has to answer himself before he can really get outside help.
When he desides he wants X product, then our facts and suggestions can help him. I was saying otherwise, if he can't answer those questions, what we say is purely opinion.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
RSM charger = HUUUUUUUUUUUGE waste of money.
GM charger = not as much of a waste of money.
A turbo will create more power, there'll never be any doubt, for many reasons.
But...
I've had the GM charger for almost two years now, and I still love it. Would I pay the full dealer cost (in excess of $3000CDN?) No effing way! I was very fortunate and got my hands on a used one.
I beat on this thing each and every time I drive it, and it's never let me down. I've upgraded the pulley, my throttle body, I have a full intake and exhaust set-up, and I've done the secret cams so I'm creating quite a bit more power than just the blower itself.
For ease of install, for peace of mind through reliability and knowing your a/f ratios are safe when you're boosting, you really can't beat the GM charger. Just don't expect to blow the doors off everything out there. First step is realizing that yes, you're gonna be a lot faster than (almost) any non-boosted LD9 out there, but you're still only going to be pushing high 14s/low 15s until you upgrade it further.
I've been in Chris's car (SunfigtherGT) and felt the sick power that it puts down (and he'll of course say "yeah and it wasn't even tuned!"). I could keep up with him for the most part, but he'd still hand my ass to me on a platter anywhere but on the track (HAHAHA I had to dig you there bro!). Don't mistake that as thinking my car is faster, it's just a bit of a battle he and I have been waging for a couple years now
The moral of my story is, don't bother with the RSM charger. And be especially careful if you ever consider buying a clutch from them!
14.330 @ 96.37mph
If your just looking for something to have fun with and be relaible then get the GM supercharger. I have no regrets about getting it. I know realistically i will prolly send the entire time i have this car in the 14's. Maybe some high 13's with all the bolt ons. But im pretty happy with that. Its a blast to drive.
If you want a drag car thats gonna scare teh crap out of people on the street get a turbo. But your also gonna need some knowledge to do it all or a good friend who does.
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
thank you all for the information but it sounds like my best bet would be the gm supercharger, I'm looking for something to have a little fun with. in regards to the supercharger does neone know if everything you need comes with it. i took 2 years of mechanic schooling so i know i few things about engines but not everything. is this some thing that don't take an expert to do? or is it something that can be done in a week or two? and the programing i heard comes with it all you have to do is go to a dealer and can do it is this true? thanks for all the help
Ive had the rsm kit on my car for 5-6 years now.At first i had my problems with tearing belts and stuff.Whenever i called them up,they always helped me out,and sent me whatever parts i needed.Ive had no problems with it for the last 3 years.I got one of the first kits,so it had a few bugs in it,but im sure they fixed them by now.If i had to do it over again though,id go turbo.S/c's are fun,but if you want some serious power go turbo.Im thinking about selling my s/c and going turbo.Good luck in whatever you choose.
Peter
'06 Cobalt ss/sc W/G85 Package
Gm Stage II W/2.79" Pulley
K&N Drop In Filter
Custom Magnaflow Dual Exhaust
GM supercharger kit is a complete kit. IT COMES WITH EVERYTHING YOU WILL NEED! Right down to a pretty good tune. Even comes with a little sticker to put on your gas door that says "premium only".
You should be able to install this very easily. All you need are some basic hand tools.
2006 Black Cobalt SS Supercharged G85
13.91@102.77
GM Charger gets hot and stays hot unless you add alky injection(180degrees during cruising and 220degrees+ during WOT).
My brother has the RSM kit(220degrees without air-to-air @7PSI) but he is having custom bent aluminum piping added to utilize a huge Procharger front mount(140-180degrees@7PSI with air-to-air intercooler), so this will outdo a GMcharger even with alky @7PSI.
Turbos are the most powerful form but to hot for a dailey driver in West Texas and if you want to keep up with Turbo Talons and GSX's(they have forged stock internals) you might as well dump $4000+ for a completely new built engine.
Stock 2.4L head flows SUCK (so have a professional port them) worst than a 305 TBI head plus the bottom end won't support anything over 220WHP safely or at least for a long period of time.
I have always read of bad service from RSM over the Org for awhile but my brother and I have not had a bad run in yet, hopefully it will stay that way.Who knows............
Alas. Being in california my options are limited in the boost category. I was looking at RSM's site today
Stage I RSM Supercharger Kit
Includes Vortech Supercharger, all brackets
and oil lines, belt and pulleys, ECU programming,
adjustable blow-off valve, FMU, induction piping
and K&N cone filter. All the parts needed
for the install are included in the kit, no extras
to buy, 60 HP gain at 6 PSI with no other
mods.
It doesn't seem bad, save for the fact that it makes no note of any fuel upgrades that come with the package... and 3500 bucks? ouch
It's not till.... stage 2 does it offer fuel mods.
Stage II RSM Supercharger Kit
Includes high volume Vortech Supercharger,
bigger injectors, all brackets and oil lines,
belt and pulleys, ECU programming, adjustable
blow-off valve, FMU, induction piping and K&N
cone filter. All the parts needed are included
with the kit. No extras to buy, but a high flow
exhaust is recommended. 85 HP gain at
10 PSI.
and it looks like they don't even have a price listed.... it says to call. but judging from the price tag on the first....... this will hurt some.
the GM charger comes with everything you'll need to reliably run 5 psi I believe. reflash and all. for just about 2k I believe.
I'm going the way of GM myself, besides, it looks pretty in the eigine bay
Don't waste your time with the RSM Supercharger.
--------------------------------------------------
'97 Z24
2004 JBO Bash Quick 8 Qualifier
That same Vortech compressor is the same one that bolts on all the LS1's(which dynos 470WHP after the G-trim is bolted).
Some people just do not know how to modify an existing kit so it will blow the pants off the M45, with less heat too.
I'm not backing up RSM yet but I have felt the raw power from Vortech Compressor's.
SOMEONE WAS SAYING ADD ALKY INJECTION TO MAKE THE GM CHARGER RUN COOLER WHAT IS THAT? ALSO IS IT POSSIBLE TO RUN AN INTER-COOLER ON A SUPER CHARGER LIKE I SAID I'M NEW TO THE SUBJECT ONCE AGAIN THANX FOR THE INFO
Brandt Sclater wrote:SOMEONE WAS SAYING ADD ALKY INJECTION TO MAKE THE GM CHARGER RUN COOLER WHAT IS THAT? ALSO IS IT POSSIBLE TO RUN AN INTER-COOLER ON A SUPER CHARGER LIKE I SAID I'M NEW TO THE SUBJECT ONCE AGAIN THANX FOR THE INFO
Maybe this can help you out...
http://www.bnecustoms.com/alcohol_injection.htm wrote:FAQs!
1. How does alcohol injection work?
By injecting a fine spray of alcohol into the inlet air stream of the engine you will both dramatically cool the charge air and raise the effective octane of the fuel. Both help to eliminate detonation-the enemy of any engine, especially those under boost with today's lower octane gas.
3. Is alcohol injection hard to use?
A good system will be fully automatic after it is installed. It should know when to spray and when to stop, and also offer tunability and monitoring of the system parameters. An "In-Car" controller is preferred. Even better is a "progressive" controller that will increase pump speed as boost increases.
4. Can alcohol injection damage my motor?
No-as long as the injection system is working properly, it can only do good things. It will tend to keep your plugs, valves, and combustion chambers very clean, since the alcohol will dissolve carbon buildup. The damage from ignoring detonation is a blown head gasket, broken piston, or worse.
6. What kind of alcohol do I use?
SMC recommends pure denatured alcohol. It is sold as a solvent in gallon cans and is available in any large home improvement store such as Lowe's or Home Depot. This is grain alcohol that has been poisoned with a bit of methanol to make it non-drinkable. You may also use methanol if you have a source for it. Be sure to use the proper alcohol lubricant. (Klotz Uplon #kl-107 ) One ounce per gallon.
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
Brandt Sclater wrote:SOMEONE WAS SAYING ADD ALKY INJECTION TO MAKE THE GM CHARGER RUN COOLER WHAT IS THAT? ALSO IS IT POSSIBLE TO RUN AN INTER-COOLER ON A SUPER CHARGER LIKE I SAID I'M NEW TO THE SUBJECT ONCE AGAIN THANX FOR THE INFO
I know people have intercooled centrifugal supercharger systems in the past but root style, I have never seen anyone do it. An intercoolers job is more effective on turbo charged vehicles. The point of an intercooler on a turbocharged vehicle (say a front mount intercooler for example) is to catch outside air into the intercooler core to cool down the HOT exhaust flow that is headed into your motor.
Now with that said, an supercharger runs off the opposite end. An supercharger has nothing but regular air flow entering through the throttle body just like if it was N/A. The reason a supercharger gets hot is because of it's constant spinning and for the simple fact that moving parts get hot and it's sitting ontop of the motor (well technically the intake manifold).
This is why people use alcohol injection because there is nothing to really causing heatsoak but the supercharger itself unlike turbo charged systems where you are intercooling after the turbocharger.
I hope this has made some sense to you. If not, I'm tired and typing at the same time...it's hard to do lol
www.kronosperformance.com / 732-742-8837
I have had great dealings with RSM. I have the stage one kit on my 04 SF GT. Is there kit perfect for every one not a chance.But if you want a system that will need very little regular maintenance.Needs no other parts to make 60 more HP over stock this may be the way to go.I like that with some tuning yes more parts and money this kit is able to make even more power, the Vortech V9 SC that is the heart of this system is used on many V8 kits. I have yet to read any where that any one has had problems with there Vortech SC passing oil from blown seals or some of the other problems as SOME turbo kits have.Nothing is perfect try to keep an open mind not every one wants the same thing from there car. You may want full out balls to the wall performance from your car some one else may want to play it it safer and go with a system that gives them a smaller gain in total HP but much better than stock and as trouble free.
Thats Him Officer The WICKED One.
a guy on here with the gm s/c, ported head and 2.5inch pulley , other normal bolt on's, water injection ran 13.2 on the stock clutch/bottom end.
Way better then anything i seen from RSM in 6 years. So dont tell me about modding a rsm s/c'd car to beat a gm s/c one.
like others said, it is all in what you want outta your car. IF you want a hassle free bump in power with a 2200$ price tag and the option to add other bolt on mods go with the GM s/c. IF you want endless power options go turbo.
good luck
(i ridden in a vortec s/c'd ws6 and 500+whp procharged trans am, insanity)
