I have done a search on all of the relate topics i could find and did not see what i was looking for.
I am getting ready to start putting together a custom turbo kit. The question I have is do yall think that it would be okay to use the 2.5 stainless steel stock that I am also planning on using for the custom exhaust I am doing.
I really wanted to go with 3" charge pipes but I don't have 3" dyes for my bending machine.
"Drive it like you stole it"
what on earth would you want 3" charge tubes for?
unless you are running a fully built motor with a big turbo I do not see the need.
"Growing old is mandatory. Growing up? Definitely optional."
The reason that i had pondered the thought of 3" charge pipes is for the simple reason that i had thought of making this stricly a drag car, well at least no longer street legal with the thought of a fully built motor pushing some major boost, I guess that another question would be how much boost could you run on the 2.5 charge pipes?
"Drive it like you stole it"
next question is how do you plan on routing the 3 inch pipes? 2.5 is hard to route no matter how you look at it, 3 inch will be alot harder without crushing it t spots
parting out my built and boosted 97 z24 so4x4.com/cavy.html for pics and a parts list
more then your engine can handel
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! 
"
sorry guys i guess i went off topic for my question when i mentioned the 3" pipes, what i was wanting to know if it would be ok to use 2.5" stainless steel exhast stock for the charge pipes, or would i need to go with 2.5" aluminum stock. the reason i am asking is i have 60' of the stainless steel stock and didnt want to have to spend anymore money for aluminum stock.
"Drive it like you stole it"
ok ill take this one.
first off exhasut stays exhaust keep on the back of your car. (unless your a 2200 those junky things shoot out the front) you want to stay with aluminum its much lighter. and more practitical to use. now since you have extra piping you can go either way. but I would sitkc with aluminum.
you dont need 3'' . to big enough said.
one more thing you can preety much drop like 80 on ebay and call it a day with your charge pipes and it will come with flashy looking pipe connectors.
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
thanks for the info guys, learning more and more about these modern eletronic, and f/i vehicles.
"Drive it like you stole it"
Jcavi wrote:more then your engine can handel
So I can infer from your statement that, if I have a properly running and tuned turbo system with 2.5" charge piping,
Switching to 3" charge piping will blow the engine
UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...... I don't think so
Quote:
ok ill take this one.
It makes no significant difference at all what material the pipes are. SS, Mild steel, Aluminum, or any other are fine. But aluminum will be lighter than SS, and probably cheaper/easier to work with if you have the equipment (most don't).
The size (diameter) issue is also basically convienience. Larger pipes will be more laggy and harder to package than smaller ones. Larger pipes will yield more HP because it takes less work to force the air through them, but the diffference is not even noticible on a dyno (1-2 hp typical) with an average street car.
sig not found
Quote:
I guess that another question would be how much boost could you run on the 2.5 charge pipes
Quote:
more then your engine can handel
you should double check to make sure that you are absolutely positve Im cometning on what you thinking comenting on.
mmm kay
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
Yes I did miss that he asked that specifically. (It may have helped if your answer was the post immediately following his question.)
Your answer was still nonsense.
A more correct and helpful answer would have been that almost any metal piping he could use would not fail under 100 psi of boost. The specific level at which it fails would be determined by material and thickness of the wall of the pipe.
That would have been an informative and educational answer to exactly what he asked.
"boost levels" is a confusing term. It is generally refering to amount of pressure but it can be inferred that it means total airflow.
When taking it as airflow, then the question of diameter of pipe becomes inportant.
Any pipe, more so one with many bends, will cause a pressure drop as air is forced through it. Given the same length and bends, a larger pipe will always have less of a pressure drop. How much of a drop depends on flow rate, which in this instance is undetermined.
When comparing the two size pipes (2.5' - 3") at any typical 2.4 liter engine flow rate the amount of pressure drop is easily overcome by making the turbo work a little harder to push air through the pipe. This amount of work increase is what causes a decrease in engine output, typically, as I stated previously, only 1-2 hp at typical 2.4 flow rates.
So for a J-body engine application with less than 500 hp, there is not enough gain to be had from using 3" to make it worth the amount of extra work it would take to actually make it fit.
sig not found
so take a person who just asked if he needed a 3" charge pipe then go ahead and tell what you told me and see if he doesnt get lost on the first. sentance. so there for I once again say 3" is no where near nesscary.
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
Quote:
A more correct and helpful answer would have been that almost any metal piping he could use would not fail under 100 psi of boost. The specific level at which it fails would be determined by material and thickness of the wall of the pipe.
why the @!#$ would he car if the pipes would hold up to the pressure? who gives a damn. hes obvisuly concearend about his engine holding up. he seems to be under the same confusinon that alot of people are under when they first start. PSI=HP since this is partilly right its used to often. what his question should of been broken down into is will 12psi make enohug HP to blow my engine.
and yes I notcied that you touch upon the subject
Quote:
Given the same length and bends, a larger pipe will always have less of a pressure drop
ummm ok?
Quote:
So for a J-body engine application with less than 500 hp, there is not enough gain to be had from using 3" to make it worth the amount of extra work it would take to actually make it fit.
well one out of three aint bad
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
Jcavi wrote:ok ill take this one.
first off exhasut stays exhaust keep on the back of your car. (unless your a 2200 those junky things shoot out the front) you want to stay with aluminum its much lighter. and more practitical to use. now since you have extra piping you can go either way. but I would sitkc with aluminum.
you dont need 3'' . to big enough said.
one more thing you can preety much drop like 80 on ebay and call it a day with your charge pipes and it will come with flashy looking pipe connectors.
you do not need to spend the money on aluminum, unless you really car about the wieght that much, the pipes aren't gonna ad to much wieght. If you have the stock i say use it. Lots of people use SS, or mild steel. It will work great for your application.
Quote:
why the @!#$ would he car if the pipes would hold up to the pressure? who gives a damn. hes obvisuly concearend about his engine holding up. he seems to be under the same confusinon that alot of people are under when they first start. PSI=HP since this is partilly right its used to often. what his question should of been broken down into is will 12psi make enohug HP to blow my engine.
Quote:
The reason that i had pondered the thought of 3" charge pipes is for the simple reason that i had thought of making this stricly a drag car, well at least no longer street legal with the thought of a fully built motor pushing some major boost, I guess that another question would be how much boost could you run on the 2.5 charge pipes?
no where in there did he mention that he is worried about his engine blowing up, he asked which would be better 3" stock or 2.5" for HIS fully built drag car, did you miss that part?
to answer the question, YES you can use 2.5" ss stock as it will work prefect. Depending on the power you wish, and the design of the rest of the system 3" would be good also. and if you do make it a full drag car, i'm sure there would be no problem in the routing of the pipes
Quote:
you dont need 3'' . to big enough said.
finally that is just ignorant to say, 3" may to big for anything you will ever see, but his car is different and he is thinking of making it a drag car, which depending on the design of the turbo system and if it actually makes it to the track as a "drag" car , 3" would probably be good
Volumeking333 wrote:Jcavi wrote:ok ill take this one.
first off exhasut stays exhaust keep on the back of your car. (unless your a 2200 those junky things shoot out the front) you want to stay with aluminum its much lighter. and more practitical to use. now since you have extra piping you can go either way. but I would sitkc with aluminum.
you dont need 3'' . to big enough said.
one more thing you can preety much drop like 80 on ebay and call it a day with your charge pipes and it will come with flashy looking pipe connectors.
you do not need to spend the money on aluminum, unless you really car about the wieght that much, the pipes aren't gonna ad to much wieght. If you have the stock i say use it. Lots of people use SS, or mild steel. It will work great for your application.
Quote:
why the @!#$ would he car if the pipes would hold up to the pressure? who gives a damn. hes obvisuly concearend about his engine holding up. he seems to be under the same confusinon that alot of people are under when they first start. PSI=HP since this is partilly right its used to often. what his question should of been broken down into is will 12psi make enohug HP to blow my engine.
Quote:
The reason that i had pondered the thought of 3" charge pipes is for the simple reason that i had thought of making this stricly a drag car, well at least no longer street legal with the thought of a fully built motor pushing some major boost, I guess that another question would be how much boost could you run on the 2.5 charge pipes?
no where in there did he mention that he is worried about his engine blowing up, he asked which would be better 3" stock or 2.5" for HIS fully built drag car, did you miss that part?
to answer the question, YES you can use 2.5" ss stock as it will work prefect. Depending on the power you wish, and the design of the rest of the system 3" would be good also. and if you do make it a full drag car, i'm sure there would be no problem in the routing of the pipes
Quote:
you dont need 3'' . to big enough said.
finally that is just ignorant to say, 3" may to big for anything you will ever see, but his car is different and he is thinking of making it a drag car, which depending on the design of the turbo system and if it actually makes it to the track as a "drag" car , 3" would probably be good
ok I will give you that he did say all out drag car which could imply that he might in some ungodly way push enoguh boost to blow apart connectors. I actuclly was just skimming so I take back my commnets on that. I guess that goes for the 3" comment I figured that he would be sticking with his 2.4 where it was. even at around 400 HP 3 inch is still on the large side. so yes if you go abosultly crazy with the car then you moght need it.
chance of 3" pipeing needed< struck by lightning.
I think though you underestimate how much weight plays a role in the speed of a car. let me ask you this do you have fat freinds have you evergunned it with the fat freind? yeah weight is important and exhasut is thick and heavy becuase it has to be. if your building a fully built race car then why in the hell would you use exhaust for your charge pipeing. ?
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
sorry guys i can see that i started an argument, what i am most concerned about with using the ss is, will it cause more f a heat problem that going with aluminum? and the reason why i was asking is, becuase i already have the ss stock and dont want to have to go out and spend another $100 for the aluminum kit. Plus i will never buy anything else off of ebay again, because i have been screwed too many times on the other things i have bought off of there. And it did not matter whether it was the so called manufacture companies or individuals, i have been screwed in someway on ever bid i have won.
"Drive it like you stole it"
just stick with the SS for now if you want, and later down the road if your feel the need to go with aluminum buy later.
so you doing mandrel bends>
I'm not going to get into the pissing match, just going to offer my insight.
Aluminum discipates more heat than mild or stainless steel. Stainless actually holds in the most heat so your charged air temperatures are going to hold a little higher with it.
You don't need 3" charge piping to make good power, especially not the 300hp goal listed in your profile (why you would stop there for a drag car, I don't know.)
2.5" is a good median with little pressure drop and ease of fitment.
You would be fine with stainless charge pipes, just make sure you have a good intercooler set-up.
Another thing I might mention.. you said you are bending your own piping? CFMs and velocity are extremely important with making power out of turbo cars. I would buy pre-bent aluminum piping unless you have a mandrel bending machine.
Cardomain|
Myspace
M I N I O N - Sinbird wrote:I'm not going to get into the pissing match, just going to offer my insight.
Aluminum discipates more heat than mild or stainless steel. Stainless actually holds in the most heat so your charged air temperatures are going to hold a little higher with it.
You don't need 3" charge piping to make good power, especially not the 300hp goal listed in your profile (why you would stop there for a drag car, I don't know.)
2.5" is a good median with little pressure drop and ease of fitment.
You would be fine with stainless charge pipes, just make sure you have a good intercooler set-up.
Another thing I might mention.. you said you are bending your own piping? CFMs and velocity are extremely important with making power out of turbo cars. I would buy pre-bent aluminum piping unless you have a mandrel bending machine.
YOu know Ive been wodnering something. Since you say that SS will hold heat better Ive been wondering if that could be used to an advangate.
for instance make the last like 3 feet of charge removable and out of SS, then keep it in the fridge on ice until your up, I would igaine it would cool down the temps a few degreees. still its probbaly not practical.
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
There is something called an intake blanket that uses that concept.... but yah, not very practical the SS way but it would help for a little while. There is a company called CryO2 that makes intake piping with outisde chambers to spray CO2 into to chill the pipes. Thery have lots of things like that you may want to look into.
Cardomain|
Myspace
http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sc&cid=1
here's a quick link to the DEI Cryo2 intake system.
We installed it on my buddy's Matrix, and there actually is a noticeable gain before and after.
I'll be using their Intake kit, their Intercooler Water Sprayer, and their Intercooler Chill Bar.
M I N I O N - Sinbird wrote:There is something called an intake blanket that uses that concept.... but yah, not very practical the SS way but it would help for a little while. There is a company called CryO2 that makes intake piping with outisde chambers to spray CO2 into to chill the pipes. Thery have lots of things like that you may want to look into.
yeah there really only a one shot sore of thing like the nx chill bar stated above. I would rather have one of those any way the look better IMO
"
Kick azz is my boost hero!!! "
