I have heard of this befor but dont understand how to do it exactly and what needs to be modified, also how much and where to get the 2.2 gears?
I know John317 has done this, taking a 96-99 5 speed and swapping in the 5 speed 2.2 4/5 gears. Whats the benefit and how is it done.
I have a spare tranny in my garage with 50K on it and would like to try something different.
Thanks
Chris-
http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible
Chris,
Actually you want to change to 2.2 3rd and 4th gears. Changing those 2 gears makes a 2.4 tranny a close ratio setup. When you shift from 2nd to 3rd there will not be as big off an RPM drop off. I went one step further and put in 4.11 FDR
Jason
99 Z24
Racers Edge
Johnny Mack Turbo Systems
Engineered Performance
Obviously you need a 4spd 2.2 and not a 3spd 2.2 to do this swap right? lol
~2014 New Z under the knife, same heart different body~
______________________
WHITECAVY no more
2012 numbers - 4SPD AUTOMATIC!!
328 HP
306 TQ
No, you need a 2.2 5spd tranny
Jason
99 Z24
Racers Edge
Johnny Mack Turbo Systems
Engineered Performance
I was also wondering the same thing.
Could I just get each gear from an auto parts store or dealer?
And what year or years 2.2 5-speed?
you could buy them new but i would assume it would be very costly. anyways, your looking for 95-99 2.2 gears for 3rd and 4th. it tightens up the ratio just a little bit to aid in quarter performance. and just to be clear, your putting them in a 95-99 z24 or sunfire gt. it wont be a signifacant diff. but will help a little. most people that do this swap do it while fixing other trans related issues to make it worth while. hope this helps you guys.
Don't steal, the government doesn't like competition
Jason ( got boost?? ) wrote:Chris,
Actually you want to change to 2.2 3rd and 4th gears. Changing those 2 gears makes a 2.4 tranny a close ratio setup. When you shift from 2nd to 3rd there will not be as big off an RPM drop off. I went one step further and put in 4.11 FDR
where did the 4:11 come from ??
I have an automatic 96 Cavalier ls sedan 2.4L and i want to change it to manual. All I need is the tranny right? does it matter what tranny or year cavalier i get it from?
when it comes to boobs i need a girl with bad grades cause im tired of all the ones walking around with straight a's
Now I am really pissed, my gfs old 5 speed 2.2 tranny was at my dads friends shop and someone picked it up thinking it was for recycling, that would have been perfect!
Anyways how do you take the gears out, I have replaced trannies on 2.4s but am wondering how to dissassemble and what parts are involved?
For the guy threadjacking, if you think it is just a 5 speed from any cavalier you are in way over your head, lol. Takes a lot more than just a tranny, and firstly yes only 96-99 2.4 tranny will work, but a lot more is needed, pcm, harness, linkage, axles, shifter, console, and more stuff.
http://members.cardomain.com/vertz24 1998 Z24 Convertible
Quote:
where did the 4:11 come from ??
DOHC Geo Storm. You need the ring gear and output shaft.
Jason
99 Z24
Racers Edge
Johnny Mack Turbo Systems
Engineered Performance
is there any specific year , and model , and is there any way to tell with out tearing the trans apart ? ie like looking up a code # on the build data or something ?
or did you by a new 1 ? if so part #
Hey Chris, I got a set of GM unit repair manuals off E-bay when I did mine. Made it super easy to do. You will have to have access to a small press so you can press some of the gears off and on.
Here's a set of
MANUALS on e-bay right now...
Also you might want to go back and read some of the older threads on the gear swapping.
"The FACTS are always subject to CHANGE once the TRUTH is applied"
"In the entire history of man the only stupid questions are the ones that don't get asked"
You can no longer get the 4.11 parts new from Isuzu. Only parts you can get new is the bearings. The 4.11's cam in 90-93 Geo Storm GSi's or Isuzu Impulses with the DOHC motor. The SOHC motors had a 3.83 FDR
1990-93 DOHC Isuzu/Geo
Gear Ratios
First 3.909:1
Second 2.150:1
Third 1.448:1
Fourth 1.027:1
Fifth 0.829:1
FDR - 4.117:1
Impulse/Storm SOHC
1st 3.272
2nd 2.043
3rd 1.448
4th 1.027
5th 0.829
FDR - 3.833
I got all my tranny info from www.alldatadiy.com That site helped me a lot when rebuilding my tranny
Jason
99 Z24
Racers Edge
Johnny Mack Turbo Systems
Engineered Performance
I have a ton of trans info saved..... as well as some exploded views of the Isuzu trans, that shows what gears to swap....... maybe I should host them somewhere, and post them up..... lol
Isuzu Gear ratios
2.4
1st 3.73
2nd 2.18
3rd 1.33
4th 0.92
5th 0.74
FDR 3.94
2.2
1st 3.91
2nd 2.18
3rd 1.45
4th 1.03
5th 0.74
FDR 3.58
Close Ratio Isuzu
1st 3.73 (2.4)
2nd 2.18 (2.4)
3rd 1.45 (2.2)
4th 1.03 (2.2)
5th 0.74 (2.4)
FDR 3.94 (2.4)
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
those ratio's look alot better once they are mixed
and with a 4:11 final , it will be a sweet trans
now to find someone that can actually do a performance build with quaility parts
having anything relating to trans parts made is EXTREAMLY expensive...... I've looked at a few places to get hardened spider gears made up, and other criticle parts........ I might as well have been asking for keys to the National Treasury building.....
on another note, I'm working on getting a better FDR for the 00+ getrag. Just as you can use the DOHC Storm FDR in the Isuzu trans, you can use the 00+ Saturn Vue FDR in our 00+ Getrags....... means going from a 3.94:1 FDR to a 4.41:1 ratio...... still need to plug it into a calculator to calculate the change in cruising speed in 5th gear (dont want to kill gas milage to much....
)
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
oooooooo 4:41 final drive
maybe ill use a getrag instead of the isuzu
SpeedRacerZ wrote:having anything relating to trans parts made is EXTREAMLY expensive...... I've looked at a few places to get hardened spider gears made up, and other criticle parts........ I might as well have been asking for keys to the National Treasury building.....
on another note, I'm working on getting a better FDR for the 00+ getrag. Just as you can use the DOHC Storm FDR in the Isuzu trans, you can use the 00+ Saturn Vue FDR in our 00+ Getrags....... means going from a 3.94:1 FDR to a 4.41:1 ratio...... still need to plug it into a calculator to calculate the change in cruising speed in 5th gear (dont want to kill gas milage to much.... )
Wow brian i thought i had spare time.....where did you find this info? keep us updated.
happen to search around, and found the Vue had the F23, just a different RPO code...... it has a different 5th and FDR....
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
The new HHR also uses the F23...... 2 different gear ratios (one for the 2.2, and one for the 2.4)
This must be the info for the 2.2eco Trans, as I can not find any info on the 2.4 version yet.
First 3.58:1
Second 2.02:1
Third 1.35:1
Fourth 0.98:1
Fifth 0.69:1
FDR -
4.17:1
There is also a F23 Getrag used in Vauxhall Astra, and had a wide range of gear ratios...... but its very hard to find any specs on them.
Vehicles with the F23 in the states:
Cavalier (M86)
HHR (?)
Cobalt (M86)
Pursuite (M86)
Grand Am (M86)
Ion (M86)
Vue (MG3)
Here is the Gear Ratio found in the J-body Getrag
1st - 3.58
2nd - 2.02
3rd - 1.35
4th - 0.98
5th - 0.69
FDR - 3.94
GM's sites are all messed up right now for some reason...... the gear ratios listed on GMPowertrain dont match up to what I had earlier..... even earlier today.
For example, on the Chevy site, under Cobalt, it lists the NON SS trans as a MM5, but the MM5 is the Getrag F25 trans.......
For the most part, these are good. I know the MG3 and M86 for sure.
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
We should probably have a sticky with all part numbers for the Isuzu rebuild and where to find parts
Yes, all your info is good. It matches up with what I already have for the Getrag. I was looking into the different Getrag FDR's before I rebuilt my Isuzu ( in case I was going to do a Getrag swap ) Don't forget that the Cobalt SS's have a 4.05 FDR. Last time I talked to Mantapart they wanted $1200 for a complete close ratio 4.17 FDR setup.
Funny you can find all the information on what cars have what gears, but I haven't been able to find and part numbers for them.
Jason
99 Z24
Racers Edge
Johnny Mack Turbo Systems
Engineered Performance
I have all the part numbers for the Isuzu...... working on getting the Getrag part numbers (have a few of them).
Your a premium member, so I'll attach what I have.
- Attachments
- Isuzu_trans.JPG (58k)
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
5 SPEED TRANSAXLE ISUZU TYPE
Item: 1 INPUT SHAFT
2.2L Eng 97101061
~2.4L Eng 97101058~
Item: 2 INPUT BEARING
Front 90142078
Item: 3 INPUT OIL SEAL
All application models 94379067
Item: 4 OUTPUT 1ST GEAR
2.2L Eng 97101439
~2.4L Eng 97101435~
Item: 5 1ST BEARING
All application models 94465412
Item: 6 OUTPUT SHAFT
2.2L Eng 97123369
~2.4L Eng 97123368~
Item: 7 OUTPUT BEARING
Front 94249619
Item: 8 REVERSE IDLER SHAFT
All application models 97101488
Item: 9 REVERSE IDLER GEAR
All application models 97160667
Item: 10 SEAL CASE
All application models 97072405
Item: 11 BEARING RETAINER
All application models 97102028
Item: 12 TRANSMISSION CASE
Item: 13 INPUT BEARING
Rear 97116395
Item: 14 THRUST WASHER
4th 97102027
5th 94321335
Item: 15 BEARING COLLAR
Each 94316287
Item: 16 NEEDLE BEARING
Each 97118872
Item: 17 4TH INPUT SHAFT GEAR
~2.2L Eng 97071759~
2.4L Eng 97071760
Item: 18 SYNCHRONIZER BLOCKING RING
Part number shown is for pricing only. For proper application, refer to local supplier.
3rd, 4th & 5th 97102295
Item: 19 3RD & 4TH SYNCHRONIZER
All application models 97109769
Item: 20 SYNCHRONIZER HUB KEY
Each 94249576
Item: 21 SYNCHRONIZER HUB SPRING
Each 97109690 21
Item: 22 3RD INPUT SHAFT GEAR
~2.2L Eng 97101195~
2.4L Eng 97101197
Item: 23 OUTPUT BEARING
Rear 94249643
Item: 24 OUTPUT 3RD & 4TH GEAR
~2.2L Eng 97101462~
2.4L Eng 97101460
Item: 25 BEARING 2ND COLLAR
All application models 94249638
Item: 26 2ND SPEED GEAR BEARING
All application models 94465412
Item: 27 OUTPUT 2ND GEAR
All application models 97101454
Item: 28 SYNCHRONIZER BLOCKING RING
Part number shown is for pricing only. For proper application, refer to local supplier.
3rd & 4th 97102295
Item: 29 SYNCHRONIZER HUB KEY
Each 94249576
Item: 30 SYNCHRONIZER HUB SPRING
Each 94152558
Item: 31 1ST & 2ND SYNCHRONIZER BEARING
All application models 97177519
Item: 32 COVER
Rear 97122352
Item: 33 COVER GASKET
Rear 94422616
Item: 34 5TH SPEED GEAR SYNCHRONIZER
All application models 97109770
Item: 35 GEAR NUT
Each 94124014
Item: 36 5TH INPUT SHAFT GEAR
All application models 97101234
Item: 37 OUTPUT 5TH GEAR
All application models 97101463
Item: 38 SHIFT FORK
1st & 2nd 97101496
3rd & 4th 97101497
5th 94109002
Item: 39 1ST & 2ND BLOCKING RING
Inner 94455343 40
Item: 40 1ST & 2ND BLOCKING RING
Inner 94455343 40
GASKET SET
All application models 97095175
NEUTRAL SAFETY CLUTCH SWITCH
All application models 14094368
TRANSAXLE ASSEMBLY
2.2L Eng 97131256
2.4L Eng 97131255
the parts marked with a ~ are the parts that make up the gears
- Attachments
- Isuzu_trans2.JPG (66k)
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
well........ all - the DOHC FDR.........
SPD RCR Z -
'02 Z24 420whp
SLO GOAT -
'04 GTO 305whp
W41 BOI -
'78 Buick Opel Isuzu W41 Swap
