Why is Qualiffe so much more expensive than Phantom Grip?
Don't they both do the same thing?
qualiffe is a complete diff.
PG is an insert.
Bingo /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ i love my t/g lsd but a quaiffe or torsen in my case would be titties
But they both perform the same functions?
Just as good?
But the Qualiffe and Torsen are complete differential replacements?
They kinda do the same thing, but they don't perform the same way. The TG/PG LSD locks the diff together with springs. If the springs separate far enough, the diff slips. That never happens with the Quaiffe or Torsen units.
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Quote:
Admiral Jedi
Today 1:26 AM
But they both perform the same functions?
Just as good?
But the Qualiffe and Torsen are complete differential replacements?
the quiaffe is a torsen lsd. follow the link below and reach enlightenment.
How differentials work and limited slip
the team green/phantom grip and quiaffe are all LSDs, but they are a lot different in their functionality and performance.
HowStuffWorks.com wrote:The open differential always applies the same amount of torque to each wheel. There are two factors that determine how much torque can be applied to the wheels: equipment and traction. In dry conditions, when there is plenty of traction, the amount of torque applied to the wheels is limited by the engine and gearing; in a low traction situation, such as when driving on ice(or in a higher horsepower vehicle), the amount of torque is limited to the greatest amount that will not cause a wheel to slip under those conditions. So, even though a car may be able to produce more torque, there needs to be enough traction to transmit that torque to the ground. If you give the car more gas after the wheels start to slip, the wheels will just spin faster.
Now what happens if one of the drive wheels has good traction, and the other one is on ice(or spinning during a launch)? This is where the problem with open differentials comes in.
Remember that the open differential always applies the same torque to both wheels, and the maximum amount of torque is limited to the greatest amount that will not make the wheels slip. It doesn't take much torque to make a tire slip on ice(or when you're making more torque and horsepower). And when the wheel with good traction is only getting the very small amount of torque that can be applied to the wheel with less traction, your car isn't going to move very much.
The solution to these problems is the limited slip differential (LSD), sometimes called positraction. Limited slip differentials use various mechanisms to allow normal differential action when going around turns. When a wheel slips, they allow more torque to be transferred to the non-slipping wheel.
The next few sections will detail some of the different types of limited slip differentials, including the clutch-type LSD, the viscous coupling, locking differential and Torsen differential.
I'm going to skip to the torsen LSD (which is what the quiaffe is)
Quote:
The Torsen differential* is a purely mechanical device; it has no electronics, clutches or viscous fluids.
The Torsen (from Torque Sensing) works as an open differential when the amount of torque going to each wheel is equal. As soon as one wheel starts to lose traction, the difference in torque causes the gears in the Torsen differential to bind together. The design of the gears in the differential determines the torque bias ratio. For instance, if a particular Torsen differential is designed with a 5:1 bias ratio, it is capable of applying up to five times more torque to the wheel that has good traction.
These devices are often used in high-performance all-wheel-drive vehicles. Like the viscous coupling, they are often used to transfer power between the front and rear wheels. In this application, the Torsen is superior to the viscous coupling because it transfers torque to the stable wheels before the actual slipping occurs.
However, if one set of wheels loses traction completely(IE in the air), the Torsen differential will be unable to supply any torque to the other set of wheels. The bias ratio determines how much torque can be transferred, and five times zero is zero.
The PG and TG lsds inserts that modify the stock open differential and works two ways. firstly, it uses pressure exerted between the spider gears to act like a clutch style LSD and under hard acceleration it locks both front wheels together.
They both perform the same functions yes, but I feel the quaiffe has the upper hand since its a legit LSD
Thanks for the info, PJ. I feel semi-enlightened.
So Team Green and Phantom Grip LSD's do the exact same thing.
Will the Phantom Grip still turn both wheels during a turn by locking them together like the Team Green, or spin them at different rates like the Qualiffe?
Thanks for your help, I'm somewhat of a noob when it comes to this sort of thing.
The PG & TG LSDs exert pressure (from springs) on the spider gears to keep them engaged under higher loads than an open differential, but slip when the spring pressure and friction is over powered. A Torsen differential (read Quaiffe) uses gears to allow the difference in wheel speed, but never totally disengages as the LSD inserts do. In other words, the inserts can be over powered and act like an open differential, where as a Torsen differential can't, it will always apply power to both wheels.
There are different spring rates available for the insert LSDs, the Team Green having the highest rate (900 lbs if I recall). The PhantomGrip is available in 600 lbs (Gold Series) or 750 lbs (Green Series), but the Team Green springs are supposed to fit the PG. The higher the spring rate, the less likely the insert will slip.
I have the PG 904 Gold and it does help traction some. It doesn't lose traction as easily as the stock open differential does and reduces the amount of torque steer, but does slip when pushed too hard. If/when I open the tranny (add more gear?), I will put the Team Green springs in to lower the possibility of slippage.
Edited for mistaken part numbers.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, November 09, 2006 7:11 AM
Please don't forget about Engineered Performance LSDs
That is what I have and they are an acutal differential built by EP with a little more put into them than the PG and TG inserts, although not a true LSD as the Torsen/Quaiffe
..................Which car will hit 400 whp first???..................
Remember the "Torsen" dif that was in the rare combo of the quads was made by Strange (Althogh if you say torsen around here people think 92 SCX dif and if you say Strange they will call you noob). Torsen is a type, like clutch, and spring. Also one thing to look at is wear over time. Springs and clutches WILL wear out over time, just like posi's in RWD cars. same concept.. different axle. Having a true dif is by all accounts the "best" option, but might not be the most applicable for your setup. Depends on use, TQ, budget, such and such.
Sven you totally quarterloafed your computer..
Thanks for the information guys.
I'm going to steal my own thread now...
I don't want to sound like I'm not serious, but how difficult is it to replace the diff. in a transmission. The transmission would have to come out, can that be accomplished by using car ramps and a jack?
It would have to be opened, so all the gaskets would have to be replaced.
Differential replaces, they put back into the car. It doesn't seem that hard. Why do shops charge $600 just to "crack it open"?
i have a quaiffe and a pg with machined spiders 4 sale. if any1 is interested let me know
Don't steal, the government doesn't like competition
Admiral Jedi wrote:Thanks for the information guys.
I'm going to steal my own thread now...
I don't want to sound like I'm not serious, but how difficult is it to replace the diff. in a transmission. The transmission would have to come out, can that be accomplished by using car ramps and a jack?
It would have to be opened, so all the gaskets would have to be replaced.
Differential replaces, they put back into the car. It doesn't seem that hard. Why do shops charge $600 just to "crack it open"?
Well with the help of my friend we just installed a TG LSD, and replaced second gear because of the shift fork. Truly we had the tranny 100% apart. really only 1 gasket to replace (there is no gaskets between the bellhousing and the case). If you half way know what you are doing once tranny is out replacing the diff is not hard. Maybe 20 minutes once tranny is on bench. Why do shops charge that because they can, and it is a lot of work dropping the tranny. I hope to having some pictures of the install, but having issues with my software to download them.
FU Tuning
^ I would love to see some labeled pictures if you don't mind when you can.
Admiral Jedi wrote:^ I would love to see some labeled pictures if you don't mind when you can.
Once I get my software issue worked out I will get some up.
FU Tuning
