Last week the transmission on my '02 2200 powered Sunfire Sedan starting acting weird. The transmission shifts fine until I get to about 50 MPH, than it takes forever to shift into the next gear. Simultaneously, the RPMs stay just above 2000, but after a few minutes they drop back down to just under 2000 which is where they are normally when I'm driving 50 MPH. The strange thing is that it seems like it happens the first time I get up to 50 MPH, say in the morning on my way to work after the car has been sitting outside in the cold all night long, and after that it's fine. It will do it again in the afternoon when I leave work. The first time I take it up to 50 MPH it does this, then if I slow down and then speed back up it's fine.
Now for a little bit of background: I purchased the car used in July of 2007 with 48,xxx miles on it. Up 'til now I have had no issues whatsoever with the car. The car currently has 62,098 miles on it. I have had the B&M Shift Plus installed on the car since probably about 50,000 miles. The Shift Plus has been on the first setting since it was installed. I turned it off this morning to see if the transmission still shifted weird and it did. When the roads are wet I have been known to turn the traction control off and spin the tires on the wet pavement which of course causes the RPMs to shoot way up, although it's never hit the redline. Yes, I know this is stupid, but I am putting it out there because I don't know if it would cause the transmission to screw up or not and I want any and every possible reason for why it's acting weird to be in this post.
I know my explanation of what's happening is a little confusing, but basically I am wondering what things I can try to help remedy this situation. I need the transmission to last until next year when I can save up enough money for an
ECO swap. My dad says I should get a transmission flush. Any other thoughts or opinions on what it could be? Thanks in advance.
i wouldnt do a flush, but a pan drop and filter change. cheaper and actually better for it. spinning the wheels on wet pavement shouldnt hurt a car with such low mileage. mine has double that (yes, im jealous) and its the original tranny with 132,000 miles, no problems despite the fact it was a previous rental. good luck! thats too nice of a car to not be driving!!
Did I mention I drive a 2000 Lumina now?-----wigm-tuners.org member
forgot to add, have you already checked the level?
Did I mention I drive a 2000 Lumina now?-----wigm-tuners.org member
Could just be a warming up thing. Or the Shift-Plus is messing with signals, I know mine's made things funky every so often after I've had it on 1 for about 10k miles. (I've since turned it off and left it off because of my pan gasket is seeping and I think the increased pressure from the shift-plus could be the cause but I'm not 100% until I get around to fixing it)
As stated above I'd have the fluid checked and a filter change, but if its only doing it initially then working out I wouldn't worry about it too much, those transmissions are pretty tough.
I would start with fluid level. I feel the best level is to add untill it starts dribbling out and then add another half a quart. If you've owned the car for almost 15K and you don't know the service history I would recomend a pan drop.
Doing wet wheel burnouts CAN damage your transmission. But don't let those words spoil your winter fun. It took a pretty smokey one wheel peeler to blow up my trans.
And zenith, your leak has nothing to do with the shift-plus, the pan is'nt under pressure.
Listen F***ers. FASTERTHANAHONDA is a joke because I WORK FOR HONDA. I'll talk @!#$ about Fords to, that doesn't mean I can beat a 12 second mustang.
FasterthanaHonda wrote:
And zenith, your leak has nothing to do with the shift-plus, the pan is'nt under pressure.
I wouldn't think it was either, but my Hayne's manual said a pan leak cause could be from the pressure being too high.
I've been putting off having it repaired because it only seems to actually leak through when im parked on an incline like my driveway.
So I'd still be good using my Shift-Plus?
I don't know how much you lose but have you checked to retighten you pan bolts. When i did my last oil change I noticed that the bolts needed to be torqued back down.
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
i would put some LUKAS AT fluid in it. its only like $10 at NAPA. if that doenst work then i would do the flush, filter change.
974drfire (Matt Littel) wrote:thats too nice of a car to not be driving!!
Awww... you're making me blush!
974drfire (Matt Littel) wrote:forgot to add, have you already checked the level?
There's no way, that I could find, to check it on the 4 speed. All I could find was the cap you remove to add more fluid. Am I missing something somewhere?
Okay guys, I looked back at my paperwork from the dealer I got the car from. They did a transmission flush on it right before I picked it up to bring it home, so that was approximately 12,000 miles ago. I am going to make an appointment to have the pan dropped and the fliter changed. Hopefully that will take care of it *crosses fingers*.
Thanks for the help guys
. I really appreciate it.
To check the level you need the car in the air and level, locate the passenger side axle output. Just underneath it and towards the front there will be an 11mm plug. Pull it out while the car is running at operating tempurature and in park. If you don't have four jackstands go to jiffy lube. If you bring your own fluid they might do it for free.
I personally think lucas is crap. I once witnessed a transmission flush on a saturn, the moron that closed the shop the night before had put 10w-30 High Mileage in the T-tech machine (guns are next to each other). The saturn shifted hard through the gears when it came in. Well after 3 quarts of motor oil got flushed into it, it shifted nice and smooth, this is when I pointed out the color of the fluid and we restarted the service properly. Once the trans was full of ATF again it shifted like crap again. My point is, 10w-30 can make a transmission seem new again. Do you think it's doing any good in there?
Good call about re-torqueing the bolts. Those bastards like to come loose. Zenith if it leaks more on an incline, maybe it's not the pan. The VSS is right above the fluid level on the back of the trans, check that out.
Listen F***ers. FASTERTHANAHONDA is a joke because I WORK FOR HONDA. I'll talk @!#$ about Fords to, that doesn't mean I can beat a 12 second mustang.
Although my Sunfire is a manual transmission, that sounds like typical behavior of any newer automatic I've driven.
As far as I can tell, most newer transmissions won't shift into top gear, or lock the torque converter clutch until they've reached a specific internal temperature. Some are programmed this way for emissions reasons (keeping the RPM higher speeds up the warming of the catalytic converter). Some cars take longer than others, depending on design and driving habits.
In the winter, I have to drive my wife's van about 7 to 10km to warm the tranny enough for it to lock up. My mom's Suzuki won't engage 4th gear until the engine is running in closed loop mode (I assume that's what it's doing when it turns off the "cold" idiot light it has). Even the 1987 Buick Century I used to drive didn't lock up the converter until it was in closed loop.
You'll probably find that the length of time before "normal" operation varies directly with how cold it is outside, and how long the car's been sitting. I wouldn't suspect anything being wrong with your transmission - and a fluid change only 1 year or so since the last won't likely affect the car at all - just your wallet.
I'd limit the "one wheel peels" though. Although they're fun, replacing a busted differential is a bit more work on our FWD cars than it was on the older RWD ones I got to play with when I was younger. I figure that the main reason GM put the traction control feature in there was more for preservation of the transmission than anything else. I'm sure they're built to take a certain amount of abuse, but they're not going to be indestructible.
John
Good insight ^. I just realized: OP when you said takes forever to shift, did you mean lags while shifting, or just waits to shift?
I'd like to know the parameters required to switch from the cold to hot shift tables.
I have proof they're not indestructable. I still stick small peices in cans when I go to collect my CRV. hehe
Listen F***ers. FASTERTHANAHONDA is a joke because I WORK FOR HONDA. I'll talk @!#$ about Fords to, that doesn't mean I can beat a 12 second mustang.
Its the TCC, under light crusing load your already in 4th, no shifts occur beyond 40mph or so. Theres a possibility the TCC solenoid is getting aged...but tough to tell.
FLUSHING WILL NOT HURT THE TRANSMISSION! When you flush you let the pump in the transmission pump old fluid out and new fluid in, theres NO danger in that unless you've got kitty litter you've scattered in the valve body while doing it.
POWER FLUSHING is bad...AAMCO, All Automatics May Crap Out... They are famous for it...
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
Quote:
but a pan drop and filter change
What filter?? Gm didn't use filters in the 2200 out trans, just a nonserviceable screen that was used to catch casing sand. It sounds like you have one of a couple of issues.
- null
A sticking silinod or gummed up valvebody.
Possably overdrive clutch wearing out.
TCM Adaptives need to be reset.
- null
Drop the pan and try drain as much of the fluid through a coffee filter as possable. What you looking for is metallic clutch material in the oil. This is usually a sign the trans clutches need to be replaced. If no material is found disconnect the battery over night and retset your adaptives.
DiamlerChrysler Certified Technician
ASE Certified Technician
Option D Racing Member
Option D wrote:Quote:
but a pan drop and filter change
What filter?? Gm didn't use filters in the 2200 out trans, just a nonserviceable screen that was used to catch casing sand. It sounds like you have one of a couple of issues.
- null
A sticking silinod or gummed up valvebody.
Possably overdrive clutch wearing out.
TCM Adaptives need to be reset.
- null
Drop the pan and try drain as much of the fluid through a coffee filter as possable. What you looking for is metallic clutch material in the oil. This is usually a sign the trans clutches need to be replaced. If no material is found disconnect the battery over night and retset your adaptives.
There is a filter in the 4t40E. I know this because the old one is still sitting in my garage and the new one is in the car, It would be stupid not to engineer a filter into the valve body since gearsets wearing in over time cause grit to contaminate the fluid, only causing more problems when they are pumped back into the hydraulic system from the pan. There is a magnetic filtration in the pan and a conventional fiberous filter encased in a plastic housing bolted to the valve body.
IF he runs the fluid through a coffee filter (< 10microns) he will find mettallic substrate. Thats guarenteed and is considered normal wear for a severe duty vehicle (any vehicle driven daily in anything but strictly highway miles is considered severe duty). The gearsets and the friction materials will constantly wear depending on load and counterforce applied.
GM did have a TSB out on the TCC Apply/Release Solenoid. You may want to look into that. Again, what you are feeling above 45mph is NOT a shift, its the torque converter clutch locking the turbine and impeller together. Thereby making a solid link from the crank to the trans input shaft. No loss in RPM is happening at this point which is why when you are cruising at speed the transmission seems to shift.
When driving less than 35mph shift it into "2" and see if it reacts the same way as you feel it does above 50mph. If it does your more than likely going after the TCC solenoid and or the Adaptive Shift strategies controlling it.
Buildin' n' Boostin for 08' - Alex Richards
Diagnosis?
Did I mention I drive a 2000 Lumina now?-----wigm-tuners.org member
Your transmission is fine. It's just a GM setting that's programmed in the PCM. If I just jump into my 99 Cav 4sp Auto when the engine is cold it will rev at about 2400 rpm when the engine hasn't warmed up and drop back down to 1700 rpm at 55 mph when the temp gauge reads around 150+. Easy fix, be good to your car and warm it up before you leave for work and from work. Less stress on the motor and you'll burn less gas that way. I got 192,500+ on mine and it's acted like this since I got it at 86,000 5 years ago.
People can't learn common sense. You're born with it. Either you have it or you just don't!
974drfire wrote:Diagnosis? djfan88 mn wrote:]Your transmission is fine. It's just a GM setting that's programmed in the PCM. If I just jump into my 99 Cav 4sp Auto when the engine is cold it will rev at about 2400 rpm when the engine hasn't warmed up and drop back down to 1700 rpm at 55 mph when the temp gauge reads around 150+. Easy fix, be good to your car and warm it up before you leave for work and from work. Less stress on the motor and you'll burn less gas that way. I got 192,500+ on mine and it's acted like this since I got it at 86,000 5 years ago.
The transmission just doesn't like the cold weather. A little over a month ago I had a full TransTech III transmission flush done at my local Chevy dealer. It's still doing the same thing, so it's definitely just the cold weather, although it was fine last winter but obviously it's a year older and has a few thousand more miles on it. I just make sure to let it warm up to at least the halfway point on the temperature gauge before starting to drive it. When I do this it takes only a few minutes for it to start shifting normally once I start driving it.
If nothing else, I figure when the spring comes I'll know for sure whether it's the cold weather or not.
Thanks again for all your help guys.
