These will first be ran as a group buy, later on will be sold on my website. This is not the group buy page but I am looking for comments, suggestions, and ideas.
I am looking at a 10 person group buy to get started, these are CUSTOM at this point, literally you guys are getting a brand new clutch that will out perform any clutch setups for the same price.
However I have the choice for a 6-puck design or 4-puck design. I am a bit fuzzy on the details but the 4-puck is suppose to engage harder and more aggressively. My personal thoughts are to just do a 6-puck, when racing these things grab and put a huge grin on your face, it feels like it is meant to be punished. These are also built so if the material is worn, and the springs are OK, then we can get the material replaced instead of a complete replacement of the clutch.
This will be up to the guys posting in this thread. The price will depend on how many people I can get.
I am looking at only a 5% discount with 5 people or a 8% discount with 10 people.
As of right now the non-group buy price will be $455 with free shipping.
So 5% will bring it down to $430, 8% will be $418. (Free Shipping)
Like I said I am working hard today to get a larger discount and overall lower price. Im not thrilled about the price, probably has to do with how the Michigan economy is doing, but I am working on it .
This price includes the tool for alignment, pressure plate, and clutch. If there is interest, I can work on just a clutch setup as well, but dollar per value isn't as good as with the pressure plate.
Another note, there is no fancy paint or "name brand" stamped anywhere, you are purely purchasing a higher value and quality product.
These will not be for sale on my site for some time, group buys will have to be first. I cannot make an order until I have payment from everyone, this is all done to keep costs down. So if you want your clutch, get the word out!
Pontiac Fiero powered by L61/LE5 Ecotec "Innovation is a new level of performance"
whats the clamping force? how much over stock can it hold? looks like it does not come with a slave? how would it compare to the spec stages? and the bully stages?
what should make me get this clutch over a brand name clutch like bully or spec? just something to think of for trying to sell it. ill need a new one in a month but im going bully. but if you can convince me to switch... i might.
You have any links on the bully stuff? I cant find a retailer for the ecotec clutches
Pontiac Fiero powered by L61/LE5 Ecotec "Innovation is a new level of performance"
http://www.bullyclutch.com/
and raven and lafngas on here are both dealers
and i have also contacted bully direct as well with an immediate response.
the clutch im getting from them
http://www.bullyclutch.com/stage4.html
offers 200% increased torque capacity over stock.
my stock excedy replacement was only $200. bully also has what they call the rxx technology which uses needle bearings which replaces the cast pivot. it makes it feel like stock but ups the clamping force tremendously.
and the price lafngas got me beat out the actual bully price as well.
There is a huge misconception with clutches, I wont go into the nitty gritty details,
but when we are talking about a 6 puck ceramic, between my clutch, spec, bully, or whatever manufacture. Where do the differences come in. The stage 4 bully, I would guess uses exactly what mine use. The major difference is ours are rebuild-able at the end of the materials life, if the springs are within tolerance. Similar to how fidanza has the inserts for the flywheels.
I can throw all sorts of numbers or big words at you as far as what it will hold, how it will feel and anything else, but it simply come down a difference between manufactures giving out crap information and that becomes the industrial standard. I mean some people on here have an OEM clutch holding as much as the expensive clutches do, and I would bet they use a OEM or OEM replacement pressure plate, would an aftermarket clutch manufacture ever tell you thats even remotely possible?
As long as the pressure plate pressure is higher than what the material needs to hold, then no more is needed and your leg is going to be doing extra work for nothing. Any "dramatic" increase in pressure force is just talk. In fact I will research the patient pending RXX technology a bit more. If it was all clamping force, why not an organic oem style, with a huge clamping force using "RXX" technology?
Do you have the part numbers for the ecotec stages they sell by chance?
Thanks for your input it is really helpful
Pontiac Fiero powered by L61/LE5 Ecotec "Innovation is a new level of performance"
http://www.bullyclutch.com/appguide.html
has all the ecotec models listed. and you cant go by their price. Bully quoted me $750 CAD and $25 CAD shipping, and on top of that customs fees. Where as Scott was cheaper by far.
as for the bully, they use aftermarket pressure plates because fetter was going to go to them for one but they said it would toast his slave cylinder because it couldnt handle the amount of pressure needed to activate it.
and as far as rebuilding a clutch, i know they will get hot, i know what happens when metals get hot. to me i wouldnt want to rebuilt a clutch unless i paid $1800 for it. then rebuilding becomes reasonable. otherwise id be down for just replacing it.
im not trying to dog you, im just trying to give you the other side aspect. i know im set on a bully and that wont change, and i appreciate the info you are presenting. these are just questions i would ask when comparing big name vs small name. kind of a what do you offer that they dont. i mean bully has been doing clutches for 10 years now but been in business for almost 80. i know you can toss spec out there but people have pretty much junked them by now lol. what you will have to do is convince people to change.
i mean bully has done tons of R&D on it for friction materials, they have drifters using them, granted im pulling it off their site, but a big company like they are have tons of money into this department.
So you have no power limit on your clutches?
FU Tuning
The holding power is that of any other 6-puck 6-spring ceramic. I'm not convinced by other brands numbers or percents.
Seeing the next "true" step up in the grade book is a solid disk without the springs, or maybe a 4 puck solid.
Opps, running out of time. I will be back
Pontiac Fiero powered by L61/LE5 Ecotec "Innovation is a new level of performance"
im sorry but to convince us that you are legit and the clutch is what you say it is you need to do two things for us..
1.) buy premium membership (shows us you are serious as a seller as well as follows the forum rules for selling)
2.) know you're product. im sorry but "The holding power is that of any other 6-puck 6-spring ceramic" tells me you dont know much about it.
i dont have an ecotec but i do have a love for new products... so, i do appreciate you coming in here and offering stuff for us. however... you really do need to work on the above subjects if you are ever going to win us over.
DICE PD aka ecotecfiero wrote:The holding power is that of any other 6-puck 6-spring ceramic. I'm not convinced by other brands numbers or percents.
Seeing the next "true" step up in the grade book is a solid disk without the springs, or maybe a 4 puck solid.
Opps, running out of time. I will be back
thats not even a legit claim, as spec has 6 puck clutches that can barely hold 300whp as where bully has been holding 500+whp and keeping the clutch pedal at the exact same engagement point every time.
bully was also the ones helping build clutches for gms ecotec drag cars and also has had 0 failure in the new cobalt ss t/c cars and they built the clutches for the cars doing the time attacks and such.
im also with brad (zyaaaaa), im not saying you arent legit but you have to have some basis to make claims that arent generalized and are more application specific for someone to buy your clutch over another company . R&D and holding capacity over stock would help to begin with and are there different clutches ie stages or this a one style clutch available?
DICE PD aka ecotecfiero wrote:The holding power is that of any other 6-puck 6-spring ceramic. I'm not convinced by other brands numbers or percents.
Seeing the next "true" step up in the grade book is a solid disk without the springs, or maybe a 4 puck solid.
Opps, running out of time. I will be back
If you are not convinvced on other companies claims for power they can hold, then have your own.
FU Tuning
Simply put, a max. peak holding power has not been set. However because I know will not sell them without giving you guys a number that has some meaning behind it.
The 9 5/8ths Size 6-Puck Ceramic has held 290 ft/lb @ 3300rpm from a 3.8L V6. Is the highest it can go? Nope.
Originally I purchased my Fiero with this v6, and have used the same ceramic clutch through 4 engines now (2 v6s and 2 ecotecs). While I would love to say my Ecotec is 450hp its not
.
This clutch is a brute, it will take the abuse, and IMO the clutch is 100% street-able and I have found for racing has it warms up, the clutch grabs are more aggressive, and tighter. This makes it an absolute blast to use.
I would like to hear some opinions from the L61 owners. I thank everyone for your opinions, I would like to have all the questions out there before I put up a group buy
Pontiac Fiero powered by L61/LE5 Ecotec "Innovation is a new level of performance"
#1. Follow the RULES & purchase a PREMIUM Membership before posting ANY potential Group Purchases or doing any business advertising.
z yaaaa wrote:
1.) buy premium membership (shows us you are serious as a seller as well as follows the forum rules for selling)
2.) know you're product. im sorry but "The holding power is that of any other 6-puck 6-spring ceramic" tells me you dont know much about it.
#2. Post this in the CORRECT Forum.
Quote:
The Group Purchase Forum is to be used solely for the organization of company sponsored Group Purchases.
NOTE: This is not a Forum to sell personal items. Personal items may be listed in the Classifieds.
RULES
All GP's contained within are solely for use by companies to promote their products as well as members to receive discounts on those products. Since companies are essentially paying for advertising, the following fees will be implemented:
$20 US for an initial Group Purchase
$10 US each additional GP by the same member
Once a member successfully completes a GP, they are moved to an "approved" list from where they will be permitted to continue running GP's at a reduced rate of $10 per GP. Refunds for unsuccessful GP's ran from an "approved" list member will receive a full $10 refund. An unsuccessful GP ran by a member not on the "approved" list will not receive a refund.
ADDITIONAL GUIDELINES
Only one group purchase per item is permitted at one time. If another company has an active GP on a product, you must wait until that GP has been completed before you may offer the same item.
Advertising in another company's GP is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.
PROCEDURE
1.Seller will pay for GP (see below).
2.Seller will create AND POST the GP message. Please note, the message will not appear in the list of active posts until it is approved.
3.Moderator will verify that the money has been paid and approve the post.
4.Those running it, as well as all those interested will be free to post and ask questions once the initial post is approved.
5.Once GP is completed, Seller will contact the Moderator within 7 days of the ending date to verify its completion/failure. Failure to do so will result in future sanctions including, but not limited to:
◦Revocation of "approved" list status
◦Temporary or permanent ban from the GP Forum
◦Temporary or permanent ban from JBO
PAYMENT INSTRUCTIONS
Send payments by paypal for fastest service -
New Group Purchase: $20.00 USD
Approved Sellers: $10.00 USD
Please post the message after sending payment. You do not need to wait for a confirmation before you post. GP approval may take up to 48 hours.
#3. Post FACTUAL information, including numbers & specs before you try to sell somthing, and only after you have done above steps 1 & 2.
Failure to do so will result in future sanctions including, but not limited to:
◦Revocation of "approved" list status
◦Temporary or permanent ban from the GP Forum
◦Temporary or permanent ban from JBO
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but other companies on this website, (including mine) have all had to follow these rules.
We as a whole expect you to do the same.
Thank you.
Supercharged 2002 Cavalier Z24
J-Body Bash Veteran
I understand what you are saying,
However under the
Group Buy information and rules. It says nothing about the market research, which is all I am doing. Keep in mind I only have the prototypes, so I am looking for feedback and input on the actual product, I am not looking (at this moment) to sell them.
I am simply seeing if there is interest here. If I have interest then I will conduct a group buy through the proper procedures, I have absolute NO issue going premium.
If I do not have the interest that I hoped for then I will simply sell them on my site and no group purchase will happen here.
If there is still an issue I am more happy to contact Dave and clear everything up.
Pontiac Fiero powered by L61/LE5 Ecotec "Innovation is a new level of performance"
Here is what we can do.... I have my motor out of my car and building a new motor. Which i hope to have back in my car and running this Saturday... 3-13-10 I have a clutch masters stage 4 6 puck and has held my 420whp 350wtq with my MandH slicks... YOU send me the clutch and I will do a review on it to see if it is worth you and everyones time.. But from the looks of the picture the pucks do not have that much meat to them like the spec clutches. So it probably wont last long... And clutch masters uses our stock pressure plate and reworks it for high clamp and keeps the stock peddle feel..
