Been looking into clutches for my car. Was going to just toss in an OEM clutch, but the price is not worth it. Now, have decided to run a 4 puck clutch from clutchnet.com. Only thing i cant decide is wheather to run sprung or unsprung. Have done a bit a research, but would like to see what some ppl on here have to say. Also not really sure if its necessary/benefitial to upgrade the pressure plate to a 2x clamping force unit, or just a lightly upgraded unit.
14.04 @ 101 ALLMOTOR
Yuck on the clutch choice, but that's just my opinion...
are you going to stick around stock HP? 2003 ecotec right? you maaay want to look into using an ACT disc. It's been done with the ecotec, a quick search will show you how. but yes, by upgrading the pressure plate you allow the clutch to work at its expected capacity. for example, if you stick a highgrade spec disc with a stock pressure plate, you won't be able to hold the power claimed. If you can find a pressureplate that upgrades to 2x the pressure, good deal. As seen on another forum, one in particular higherlevel spec clutchkit came with a pressureplate that only produced a 30% increase in clamping power (measured in PSI) compared to oem. this seemingly small increase was enough to handle the powerincrease (that created the necessity for an upgraded clutch)
A quick google search will reveal numerous articles about Spec and their clutch kits. I am not a fan of random engagement points or crappy warranty service. I highly recommend Bully (obviously for a consierable amount of HP, have yet to hear anything negative about this company), ACT (you buy just the disc) , or stock exedy. I have heard both negative and positive things about clutchnet. Have you checked with them for what they claim the discs will hold for hp/torque? I know it doesn't list iton their site..
Unsprung clutches have 0 forgiveness with engagement. You have to be very very very very good at driving a standard tranny to drive one. I would never consider one for a street car.
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
I'm glad you brought this up Paul, I'm in the same boat.
For others out there, the reasoning behind the 4-puck clutch is to allow for quicker shifting at high RPM as it weight considerably less that a standard disk.
Any links to people having issues with clutchnet.com clutches? Everywhere I read people have nothing but good to say.
Tinkles - Have you driven a car with an unsprung clutch? I always hear people say the engagement has no forgiveness but I'm not sure if thats just popular belief or fact.
I look at it like this, those springs make up a fraction of the revolution on the motor (considering you compress them all the way), at the tire that in first gear thats an even smaller fraction of a turn. If you consider they can only compress once during an engagement, how can that tiny fraction make the differeance between stalling the car or not.
I'm sure the engagement will be rougher but I'm very curious to hear some first person testimonial on it, hence why I asked if you have any experiance with them.
Paul - Combo order?
are these cars to be driven on the street at all? if so, you want a sprung clutch. also id still rather get a 6 puck vs a 4 puck because 4 puck plus unspring will be on off clutch and wont let you allow it to be slipped like a twin disc can or a full face. its going to literally be like a light switch. id hate to drive that in town any day of the week. if it were me, id look at the clutchmasters FX 400, the FX 400 can be had for under $700. and is one hell of a clutch. I had a quote for a friend for the fx400 for $675 shipped which to me is a hell of a deal. no matter what id do a 6 puck, the fx400 is ceramic and spring disc so its durable and drivable.
Weatheralls Auto wrote:4 puck Stage 3 bully is what I would choose.
Sprung so it will be drivable on street at the same time.
id still stick with a 6 puck for drivability if they spend any time on the street.
looks like the bully stage 3 is $677 before shipping, id contact scott, (lafngas) and he can get bully clutches a lot cheaper than from bully themselves. and the CM FX400 is about $675 shipped.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:55 PM
Weatheralls Auto wrote:My 4 puck Stage 3 is not bad at all, Took a day to get used to it.
my twin disc isnt either but i got a clutch knowing id race the hell out of it and still drive it 20K miles in 5 months.
BuiltNBoosted wrote:are these cars to be driven on the street at all? if so, you want a sprung clutch. also id still rather get a 6 puck vs a 4 puck because 4 puck plus unspring will be on off clutch and wont let you allow it to be slipped like a twin disc can or a full face. its going to literally be like a light switch. id hate to drive that in town any day of the week. if it were me, id look at the clutchmasters FX 400, the FX 400 can be had for under $700. and is one hell of a clutch. I had a quote for a friend for the fx400 for $675 shipped which to me is a hell of a deal. no matter what id do a 6 puck, the fx400 is ceramic and spring disc so its durable and drivable.
We both drive our cars +5 hours, one way, to the track...so they see quite a bit of street time.
I'm gonna look around and see if I can find somoene with first person experiance with a un-sprung clutch, I'd idealy like to get a 4-puck unsprung...plus with pressure plate they are under $250 bucks from clutchnet.
why the unsprung choice? ive driven one and it was like stepping on a brick and it was literally ON/OFF. there was no in between. killed it probably 4-5 times before i revved the piss out of it and just dumped it, spun them in the parking lot big time and that was just taking off... i got out of the car and wont drive it again.
sprung is the way to go and if you go sprung and a 4 puck, it will be more driveable than unsprung and 4 puck. i just wouldnt cheap out on a clutch. its gonna be the heart of power transfer and dont want it to slip.
and for clutchnet.com... as far as that goes haha, i dont know if i could buy a product that classifies its pressure plates by a color.
id just look into something you KNOW will grip and not slip on you but still be drivable to the track. clutch is probably on my top 3 list of stuff to not cheap out on. ESPECIALLY if you plan to race quite a bit.
No 1st hand experience hear, but back in high school shop i remember my shop teachers rant about them.
its an old concept. time for something new to take the reigns. - Z yaaaa
BuiltNBoosted wrote:why the unsprung choice? ive driven one and it was like stepping on a brick and it was literally ON/OFF. there was no in between. killed it probably 4-5 times before i revved the piss out of it and just dumped it, spun them in the parking lot big time and that was just taking off... i got out of the car and wont drive it again.
sprung is the way to go and if you go sprung and a 4 puck, it will be more driveable than unsprung and 4 puck. i just wouldnt cheap out on a clutch. its gonna be the heart of power transfer and dont want it to slip.
and for clutchnet.com... as far as that goes haha, i dont know if i could buy a product that classifies its pressure plates by a color.
id just look into something you KNOW will grip and not slip on you but still be drivable to the track. clutch is probably on my top 3 list of stuff to not cheap out on. ESPECIALLY if you plan to race quite a bit.
I actually just got back from a trip through the Honda forums and there are many people running on 4&6 puck clutches in DD's, I'd say for every negative review there seems to be 5 possitive reviews.
Clutchnet is quite respected in almost every other car forum, Honda guys run them all the time with set-ups in the 400-500whp range without issue. Just because they are cheaper doesn't mean they are no good. And on a note about the coloured pressure plates, whats wrong with the different colours? Its not worse that any of the big companies painting them all the same colour and then giving them some fancy name or "Stage" to make them sound cooler.
HAHA Actually, from a few quick articles in google, a sprung hub has nothing to do with smooth engagement, but to do with reducing or eliminating clutch chatter and noise.
Apparently the springs only deform a few milimeters at the most during the pulse cylce of the motor. This goes back to the point I made earlier about how such a little deformation could really affect the engagement a large amount.
Learn something every day.
Dave: Combo order = yes lol
also did alot of research on the honda and DSM forums. tonnes of ppl driving 300-500whp cars as DDs with 4 puck unsprung, making me side with the fact that there not bad. it actually says on their site under 4puck unsprung that its a great choice for use when slipping the clutch is needed as in launching. sounds pretty perfect to me...
14.04 @ 101 ALLMOTOR
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2133783
post #2,
The theory is that the springs will dampen the engagement slightly and to soften driveline shock and reduce associated clutch engagement noise.
http://www.sr20-forum.com/turbo/19288-sprung-vs-unsprung-clutches.html
and i was just joking about the yellow performance pressure plate lol. it doesnt give a brand, just a color.
so yes sprung will be quieter and more driveable for sure. even the evo guys recommend sprung if its going to get street driven at all.
as for mine, being a twin disc, it chatters like a mofo! but i love it
, people are already like, your car is making a whirring noise you know? i go yep and it also goes psh! haha. 99% of the time i dont hear it anyway because the radio or exhaust covers it up.
newt wrote:BuiltNBoosted wrote:are these cars to be driven on the street at all? if so, you want a sprung clutch. also id still rather get a 6 puck vs a 4 puck because 4 puck plus unspring will be on off clutch and wont let you allow it to be slipped like a twin disc can or a full face. its going to literally be like a light switch. id hate to drive that in town any day of the week. if it were me, id look at the clutchmasters FX 400, the FX 400 can be had for under $700. and is one hell of a clutch. I had a quote for a friend for the fx400 for $675 shipped which to me is a hell of a deal. no matter what id do a 6 puck, the fx400 is ceramic and spring disc so its durable and drivable.
We both drive our cars +5 hours, one way, to the track...so they see quite a bit of street time.
wow... dood that takes nuts. good god i dont envy that.
you just gained even more of my respect, sir. and you too paul k.
If it takes forever.... I will die trying. Underdog Racing
thanks man
it sucks not having any tracks around here, they are opening one but its only 1/8 mile. furthest ive driven to race was from here (sudbury) to napierville quebec. about 9-10hrs one way...
gotta really trust what uve built...LOL
14.04 @ 101 ALLMOTOR
I think the decision has been made to get the clutchnet clutch but I got my ClutchMasters Stage IV sprung 4-puck for $625 shipped to the door from Unified-distribution. Killer deal. I would have went 6-puck but the CM representative recommended the 4-puck for my application. Newt if you do get it please put up a review so we call all know how the clutch performs.
It beats a Honda!
I run a 4 puck unsprung ACT in my Cavy. Engagement is harsh and pedal pressure is stiff but the thing grips like a MOFO! If you're running this mostly for the street I do not recommend it as there is very little room for error and on slow take off you do get a fair amount of chatter.
President/Founder - 607 Motorsports
I'm running a bully stage 3, 4 puck and it was great for both the track and the street. I'm not sure how the stage 3 holds up to 300whp (as I do believe its getting to the max capacity of the stage 3) but I'll find out this summer. If it doesn't handle it I'll be looking for something to upgrade to. I'm not sure what a bully stage 4 runs these days but I may be interested in a change as my bully stage 3 was just shy of $1000. I am taking a look on the clutchnet website now and the prices seem reasonable, just gotta figure out which stage to go with.
wow who did you buy that bully from? You should talk to Scott(lafngas) and see his prices on it. He thought he could have got me a bully stage 4 for cheaper than what you got the 3 for.
BuiltNBoosted wrote:wow who did you buy that bully from? You should talk to Scott(lafngas) and see his prices on it. He thought he could have got me a bully stage 4 for cheaper than what you got the 3 for.
I bought it from Raven but realized after that Scott had them for a much better price. I did some calling and bully says the stage 3 should handle 350ft/lbs and I doubt I will be even 300 so even if I get the summer out of it I'll be happy. I have had good luck with the stage 3 so I may get ahold of Scott when the time comes to upgrade to the stage 4.
I have a Clutchnet unsprung 4 puck disc sitting in my bedroom waiting to go in my Talon...
A friend has the same disc with an ACT 2600 pressure plate in his Talon as well and it's a fantastic setup. His car also traps 130MPH so I guess it's not really a comparable situation... But his car isn't bad at all to drive on the street. You get used to it quickly.
like you both know i have a stage 3 6puck... its decent but it feels like a light switch to me. i dont really like it for DD and have only been to a track once with it so far, and dave youve drivin my car with this clutch... my rents have a stage 2 in their car, i love it, feels like a stock clutch but grabs good when you want it to... anyways ive got 250whp and the stage 3 seems to hold up... bully dealer here in town, i think i paid 688 for it...cant remember
13.22 @ 105.2
