OK, it's about time to get tires for my '99 Z24. according to the tire rack, a 225/50-16 has the same outer diameter as a 205/55-16, and should fit (barely) on a 6-inch wide rim (I still have stock wheels), so I'll probably get the 225s. My first choice for a tire is the BFG G-Force sport; it's not too expensive, has a decent treadwear rating, and comes highly recommended. my next two choices are the Yokohama AVS ES100 (which I've used for the last 6 mos. or so in 205/50-16) and the Fuzion ZRi. I don't drive in snow, I don't go to the track, I drive pretty hard daily, and I'm on a pretty tight budget.
does anyone have any advice regarding this? like, why I shouldn't get the G-Force sports (I have yet to hear or read anything bad about them) or if that size is going to be a complete bastard to squeeze onto my rims or will rub.
LD9 F23 FTW!!
I got Fuzion HRis for like $450 or so for all 4 of em installed at Peerless Tire Co.
the g-force sports are an awsome summer tire. they are sticky as all hell and wear very nice. they provide good traction in wet and dry, and its a good thing you dont drive in the snow with them, they are not rated for winter conditions.
they are making a g-foce super sport a/s though... its going to be a high performance tire that is capable of all season performance. i dont know when its comming or what it looks like, but ive seen it in the literature in the shop i work at.
you have picked a good choice in the BFG, i tend to like them more than the Yokohama's, although the Fuzions are nice.
1997 RedR - ZedR
I have HRis on the back right now. I got them b/c the G/Y Eagle RS-As were worn slick, and it was supposed to rain a bunch, so one of the Parts guys at work (a Toyota dealership) got me the cheapest 205/55/16 tires he could find- a pair of Fuzion HRis for $135.00 and I installed them myself. I was actually quite impressed (while they were on the front- long story), and that's why I'm open to the ZRis, since they're supposed to be higher-performance than the HRis. BTW... the Fuzions make a different sound than other tires when they start to break loose, have you noticed? they kinda bark/ howl instead of squeeking and squealing.
Hey, you (89sunbird) have the same wheels as me, too.
I have the Yokos on the front right now. I got them because I needed new tires to pass state inpection, and someone at work said they were really good tires and I could afford $95 each at the time.
I think I'm gonna go with the BFGs for the front right now, and leave the HRis on the back, since they still have lots of tread left on them... as soon as I get some money, that is.
LD9 F23 FTW!!
if you put the g-force sports on the front (which are z-rated) and the fuzion Hris on the back (h-rated) you are going to have a fun time handling this car.
byt the sounds of it....
toyotaz87 wrote:BTW... the Fuzions make a different sound than other tires when they start to break loose, have you noticed? they kinda bark/ howl instead of squeeking and squealing.
you are driving this thing pretty hard. the g-forces are going to handle better tyhan the Hris for 2 reasons:
1- new tread on front vs old tread on back
2- Z rated max summer performance vs Hrated performance all season
your going to have a hard time keeping the back end of this thing stable as its going to want to break loose on you. do yourself a favour and put the new tires on the back, especially being that they handl so much better than the fuzions.
1997 RedR - ZedR
Quote:
your going to have a hard time keeping the back end of this thing stable as its going to want to break loose on you. do yourself a favour and put the new tires on the back, especially being that they handl so much better than the fuzions.
Uhh... no, thank you. The front tires drive the car, do probably 75-85% of the braking, carry no less than 55% of the car's weight (probably closer to 60% or more), and steer the car. The rear tires carry the remainder of the car's weight... and not
much else. Now, I'm not saying that it's a good idea to put z-rated pizza cutter tires on the rear, with meaty-a$$ competition tires on the front (unless you're drag racing, and that only), the rear tires definitely can make a huge difference in the way the car handles, but I'd rather have the better tires on the front; I'd rather have the rear end a little squirrly than have reduced traction, steering, and braking. I can control a tail-slide if I have those three things.
In a RWD car, I would agree with you, but in a FWD car, I have to disagree, based on my personal experience.
BTW, speed ratings (Z-or H-rated tires) don't have anything to do with the tires' grip. usually, a high-speed tire is designed to grip well, because that just makes more sense, but an H-rated tire can grip as well as a Z-rated tire (the Fuzuions are danm close to the Yokos, and have a much higher wear rating).
LD9 F23 FTW!!
89Sunbird wrote:I got Fuzion HRis for like $450 or so for all 4 of em installed at Peerless Tire Co.
are those directional? i think the front passenger is on backwards.... i cant tell, the pic is kinda small... but ya might wanna check that out anyway
yes, they are backwards if they are Zri's... Hri's are assymetrical and not directional, but they sure as hell look like they are.
1997 RedR - ZedR
they are assymetrical, just gotta mount them correctly and you can cross rotate with them. i deal with hri's all day. few complaints are they are loud over time but overall for a 40,000 mile tire they work nicely.
Quote:
Everybody is a friggin' hero until they put their car into a ditch rear end first!
But seriously,
There is not one tire manufacturer that advocates placing tires on your vehicle in a fashion that will promote oversteer. If you decide to ignore that, that is your perogative, but please don't don't give advice to your fellow j-body owners that contradicts the manufacturer's recommendations.
if you want to talk about manufacturers' recommendations, don't tune your car at all. anything you do to your car to make it better to you is against "manufacturer's recommendations" (btw, you forgot to /quote)
I'm not saying that it's the best idea in the world or even promoting it as a good idea. I guess it's personal preference- If I lose traction on the front, I'm f*cked. If I lose traction on the rear, I have a chance of saving it, depending on my speed, and personal factors (i.e. if for some strange reason I wasn't concentrating on my driving 100%, which is rare).
ultimately, this is a temporary setup anyway. I can't afford to get four tires right now, and when I can afford to get two more tires, I will.
and yeah, the HRi's look like they're directional and asymmetrical, but they are just asymmetrical. I thought that too, when I first got mine.
LD9 F23 FTW!!
Quote:
Tire Industry Association (TIA) Advanced Tire Service Instructor
Graduate of Michelin Advanced Sales Training
Graduate of Rod Hall Off Road Driving School
Graduate of Vehicle Driving Dynamics, Michelin Laurens Proving Grounds.
sorry toyotaz, but if it came down to who i was going to listen to, shane has the better credentials....
there is nothing wrong with moddifying a car in any asspect (performance, handling, etc.) but you need to make educated decisions on the changes that you make.
michelin article
tire racks stand
goodyears answer (bottom of page)
hopefully now you are educated enough to make the right decision about this. hopefully you dont think you know better and start giving out the wrong advice about something like this. hopefully if you dont heed mine and shanes warnings to you and end up loosing traction on the rear or in a ditch that you smarten up and realize the error in your ways.
we arent trying to do this to be pricks, we are just trying to educated people about something that can lead to serious injury or even death in the event of a situation steming from this.
1997 RedR - ZedR
like I said, I'm going to put better tires on the rear when I get more money, but I can't afford to get 4 tires right now. Hell, I can barely afford 2.
Quote:
your going to have a hard time keeping the back end of this thing stable as its going to want to break loose on you.
I fail to see how this car is going to be unstable in a straight line, and I'm not going to be goin' completly wild around the turns- it is my daily driver, after all.
Also, the best way for a car to be set up is largely dependant upon driver preferences, not solely so, but the setup should suit the driver. Ultimately, a perfectly neutral setup will provide the highest level of grip, but it will be difficult to probe that fine line between maximum grip and sliding, since the transition in such a car is usually quite abrupt. usually, a slight oversteer bias is the most predictable, with very good grip. and, of course, the best way to tune the car's balance is not tires alone, but the entire suspension, steering, and braking systems, along with tires.
I'm not trying to give anybody advice about this. I'm saying that this is my plan. My request for advice was more regarding fitment, not how it will effect my handling. I'm sure it will be pretty prone to oversteer if I push it around turns, but I'm replacing the HRi's when I can afford to.
Quote:
Tire Industry Association (TIA) Advanced Tire Service Instructor
Graduate of Michelin Advanced Sales Training
Graduate of Rod Hall Off Road Driving School
Graduate of Vehicle Driving Dynamics, Michelin Laurens Proving Grounds.
really, I've never heard of any of this, and anyone can say anything on the internet (I'm not making any accusations...), so I'm not really all that impressed. putting things like this in a post really just sounds like "my dick is bigger than yours"
LD9 F23 FTW!!
to me this sounds like
"well, I can't really afford to be safe right now, and besides I am the grand master at pulling my but out a tail slide when I do not not have any traction.
I know that I should put the new and higher performance tires on the rear, but if I get into trouble I will just hit the big red button on the dash and it will just slide the back end of the car right where I want it."
this kinda follows the same logic as saying "well, I know that I don't have any breaks on my car right now, but I will just go really slow and hope that I don't need to use them, I can just open the door and stick my foot out if I really need to slow down quick, that will work."
I don't mean to be a jerk about this, but in most of the cases, the new tires should be installed on the rear of any vehicle,
unless the are putting just 2 tires on a DRW rear wheel drive truck, different size tires front and back, if the new tires will have less traction(used without a better word for it) than the rear tires(all terrain tires on the back, all seasons on the front(mainly applies to trucks, but the same theory applies to cars, maybe a few more, but I can't think of them right now.
this is why it is not recomended to have just 2 winter tires on the front of a FWD vehicle, you will have too little traction in the rear and will loose what traction there is and go into a tail slide, and on ice there is not much that can be done then.
same idea as doing the McDonalds tray sliding with a FWD car(FWD wanna be drift), or when doing burnouts in a RWD vehicle and the back end slides arround because the front at that time has more traction than the rear.
I understand the principles you're talking about.
I misstated myself when I said I can pull out of a tail-slide. better wording would be "I have a better chance of pulling out of a tail-slide than if I lose traction on the front."
the point may be moot anyway. I have a little extra money coming in (I'm not sure exactly how much yet), so I may be able to get all 4. I will if I can.
and it's not the same as brakes. I know if I try to take a turn too hard, it will tend to oversteer. I'm not going to be taking any turns that hard until I get new rear tires. I can say this with my tires because my brakes work fine, so I can controll how fast I take a turn. with brakes, you never know when you're going to need to slow down in a hurry.
also, many people I've talked to have agreed with me, and not just like "oh, well..." they all say "who is saying that?" and they're people with experience in the car service and repair industry (I'll wager more than you and me combined).
I'm getting really exaspirated with this whole thread though. You set your car up the way you want to, and I'll set mine up my way, and if my ass ends up in a ditch, it's no one's fault but my own.
since no one seems to want/ be able to answer what I asked, I have made my last post on this thread.
LD9 F23 FTW!!
sorry toyotaz, but if it came down to who i was going to listen to, shane has the better credentials....
there is nothing wrong with moddifying a car in any asspect (performance, handling, etc.) but you need to make educated decisions on the changes that you make.
michelin article
tire racks stand
goodyears answer (bottom of page)
hopefully now you are educated enough to make the right decision about this. hopefully you dont think you know better and start giving out the wrong advice about something like this. hopefully if you dont heed mine and shanes warnings to you and end up loosing traction on the rear or in a ditch that you smarten up and realize the error in your ways.
we arent trying to do this to be pricks, we are just trying to educated people about something that can lead to serious injury or even death in the event of a situation steming from this.
Did you not read the articles he wrote?
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2898349
Ok, well normally I wouldn't post again since I said the other one was my last, but since I hadn't read the articles before, I will answer the articles specifically.
Quote:
"The new tires will grip the road more effectively and evacuate standing water more efficiently than the worn tires,"
this is specifically why they should be put on the
front
[
Quote:
This becomes especially important when travelling and braking on wet surfaces. If the front tires have more tread than the rear, the rear will lose their grip and begin hydroplaning first, creating a very difficult situation for even a seasoned driver to control.
how can the rear tires begin hydroplaning before the front, if the front tires are ahead of them, and if they have enough tread, they will evacuate water more effectively (see first quote), thereby clearing a relatively dry path for the rear tires.
Quote:
A lightweight vehicle with wide, worn, underinflated tires will hydroplane at lower speeds in a heavy downpour than a heavyweight vehicle equipped with new, narrow, properly inflated tires in drizzling rain.
another reason why (in my case) the BFGs should go on the front, and the Fuzions on the rear; the front of the car is heavier, therefore, the wider tires should go on the front
Quote:
the front tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the rears. This will cause the vehicle to begin to understeer (the vehicle wants to continue driving straight ahead). Understeer is relatively easy to control because releasing the gas pedal will slow the vehicle and help the driver maintain control.
if the front tires are hydroplaning there is little, if any, control present- the tires are not touching the road, and therefore have no traction- it's like the hydroplaning tires are on ice. the same principle applies- contact between the tire and a surface with traction is impeded by a layer of water. what makes ice slippery is the thin film of melted ice (water) between the tire and the solid ice.
finally, goodyear starts off talking about bias-ply tires, and then they offer no supporting ideas, they just recommend new tires be put on the rear. I don't know about any of you, but I haven't even seen bias-ply tires. I fail to see the relevance of this article.
In summary, all these articles are referring to the tread depth and rain. My Fuzions have 8 to 9 32nds of an inch of tread depth. brand new BFGs should be 10/32". with the BFGs on the front, I can almost guarantee that they will wear to 7/32 before the Fuzions will (on the rear). Plus, the Fuzion HRi, being an all-season tire, will probably have better grip in the rain than the BFGs, which are "Ultra High Performance Summer" tires (according to the Tire Rack).
so, like I've said before, make your own decisions on where you put your tires, but I'm putting my BFG g-force sport 225/50-16s on the front, and my Fuzion HRi 205/55-16s are staying on the rear, at least until I get enough money to get two more BFGs.
LD9 F23 FTW!!
