i drive a 95 base model cavalier with the 3 speed auto trans car has over 200,000 on body about 24,000 on the engine

i am not new to cars, but this one is puzzling me...

first off, i know its a piece of crap 2.2L OHV with the 3 speed trans, but i am get horrible gas millage i am only getting about 18 mpg or so, if im lucky.

plugs/wires were recently changed before i purchased the car, i have changed the oil,

also i have ran premium gas with octane booster to (flush) any bad gas outa the tank


so any help would be much appricated, but i am just assuming my problem lies withing the crappy 3speed auto trans

http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=11&i=143239&t=143239



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helpful but this info i already know.... and most people i read there were ticked about getting 28mpg.... i would be happy to get 20 and this isn't a "winter" thing i got the car in the summer it was only getting roughly 20mpg....

so the whole winter thing doesn't really cut it from what i can tell... it probably is a factor but not the main reason.... but thx

but im still assuming it is because i have the 3speed auto trans for the most part.... more info would help

any info is good info the way i see it....

did you even read my response in the other thread? it still goes the same way: replace your air and fuel filters, take out any excess weight, make sure the trans isnt slipping, replace your spark plugs and wires, seafoam your car, check the fuel pressure, look for vacuum leaks...



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check check and check on all the filters and above... i need to find a better cav is what i really need to do... can't find what i want though ugh........

i can't find a Z24 anywhere aware from where im from... im looking to find a 96-02 5speed z, but NO luck and im stuck driving this piece of crap until i do find one... but have been thinking of doing the ecotec swap to this one. or throwing a bunch of cash into it and making a show car outa it... can't deside but thx for the info, and yea i read the other thread for some reason the car just seems wrong..... maybe its just because it's a piece of crap... lol

I had the same issue on a 97 Eagle Talon that I have.
After I checked all the vacuum lines, full tune up check compression, oxy sensors, maf, map, tps, IAC and a thousand other things... It turned out to be both my front calipers with hanging on the rotors. Not much, but just enough to drag my MPG to the ground... Something to check anyway...

I'm having the same sort of difficulty with my '00 2.2 . I have a place I get mechanical stuff I can't do myself done, and I'm going to let them diagnose the cause.


"...smells like cheese..."-Stewie Griffin

Pfft...I'd love to get 18mpg. I'm getting something ridiculous...think I calculated it to 12mpg. Ive changed everything! Im going to do another tune up and seafoam it, hopefully the seafoam works.

I did have those expensive 4 tip Bosch spark plugs. I heard AC Delco would be best.
Any suggestion on spark plug wires? AC Delco too?
Royal Purple Oil 10w-30
K&N Oil filter
K&N Air filter
new PCV valve
new fuel filter
Seafoam
can anyone think of anything else?

How would I check for fuel pressure? or vaccum leaks? Aside from poor MPG whats othe symptoms of either poor fuel pressure or air leaks? My car fels peppy like it has full power. (2.2 OHV manual tranny)

Jeffrey M White wrote:
I did have those expensive 4 tip Bosch spark plugs. I heard AC Delco would be best.

Jeffrey M White wrote:Pfft...I'd love to get 18mpg. I'm getting something ridiculous...think I calculated it to 12mpg. Ive changed everything! Im going to do another tune up and seafoam it, hopefully the seafoam works.

I did have those expensive 4 tip Bosch spark plugs. I heard AC Delco would be best.
Any suggestion on spark plug wires? AC Delco too?
Royal Purple Oil 10w-30
K&N Oil filter
K&N Air filter
new PCV valve
new fuel filter
Seafoam
can anyone think of anything else?

How would I check for fuel pressure? or vaccum leaks? Aside from poor MPG whats othe symptoms of either poor fuel pressure or air leaks? My car fels peppy like it has full power. (2.2 OHV manual tranny)

Never buy Bosch for a J body... It makes them hate life for some reason...
NGK Vpower is what I use, way less expensive and they work great, just make sure you gap them correctly, or even a bit closer than spec...

I would not assume fuel pressure was an issue, just my opinion...

Vacuum leaks, you basically start replacing rubber until its all new...
There are pressurized smoke systems to check for leaks, but you could replace every hose in your car twice for the cost of it...

Are you getting black smoke form the exhaust?
ANY other symptoms that just crap gas mileage?


Smile! All things fade with time...

No black smoke at all - oil doesnt leak or burn. The tip of my muffler is black though - which to me means the gas isn't completly burning - ie. running rich. But I'm not sure if thats even a correct hypothesis nor am I sure how to start looking.

Checking to see if the engine is running rich;
Pull out a spark plug and look at the color of th tip. It should look mildly white. If you have black crap coated plugs you are either burning oil or you are running rich... You exhaust tips being black is usually a good indicator of either running rich or burning oil.

Reading the above post again, I would say SWITCH your spark plugs... J bodies HATE bosch plugs... I made the mistake of using them when I first bought mine and it ran like dog crap until I changed them.... Go with COPPER core resistor type plugs, AC Delcos and NGK Vpower work decent that I have found...

Make sure when you are putting the boots back on they seat correctly, that is another common problem, those stupid boots dont get seated properly... They sell those little dielectric spark plug grease packets at most auto stores, get one and use it. They sound stupid, but they actually help make contact.

Beyond that you may end up replacing sensors until you get the right one that is throwing the A/F ratio off... Sometimes the O2 Sensor BEFORE the cat can send off faulty reading with out setting off a CEL. You could try pulling that and washing it off with baking soda and water ( LET IT DRY!!!! ) and put it back in, see if it clears things up a bit...


Smile! All things fade with time...

Wow thats useful info I just Seafoamed my car yesterday and did a tune up. Put in new oil and changed spark plugs. They werent the 4 tip bosch ones, they ended up being the dual tip ones. I replaced them with AC Delco single tip platinum ones. The boots do seem hard to put on properly grease is a good idea. Will try that.

I did notice that the plugs from cylinders 3 and 4 definately had a lot of black gunk and oil on them - 1 and 2 seemsed to be cleaner. Sensor wise - starting with O2 sensors would be the best?

not to be a wiseass...but don't drive with a heavy foot. I know...its hard not to trust me I'm just about to turn 18 on sunday and when I got my first 5-speed ( which would be my current Z24) I couldn't resist. Well now I've flushed the urge out of my system... I seem to get about 20-24 mpg ( I drive back and forth to school and work mostly so its red light/stop sign galore). Plus I do not have the orig. engine installed on my car...its a 2.4L GM Jasper motor.

Seriously, don't drive with a lead foot...coast to red lights and stop signs and brake early and light ( PLEASE don't be the moron that waits to the last second to slam on their brakes...it's so friggin immature.)

Actually, if you have two plugs that were black and two that were fine, I might suggest taking out your coil packs that control those two spark plugs and take them in to your local Autozone or O'reiley. They can ohm test them to see if you are getting decent fire from them. It seems that you are having an issue with spark on the last two cylinders.

Maybe not, it might just be a case of not liking the bosch plugs... I would say drive it for 100 miles or so and check those two, previously, black plugs though...


Smile! All things fade with time...

Trust me I don't drive with a lead foot - I'm used to driving slow...my other 3 cars were Geo Metros - the 1.0 3 cylinder ones...not the 1.3 L 4 cylinder ones...
I have also always driven manual - 5 speed doesnt give me the urge to race or anything.

Reject wrote:
Beyond that you may end up replacing sensors until you get the right one that is throwing the A/F ratio off... Sometimes the O2 Sensor BEFORE the cat can send off faulty reading with out setting off a CEL. You could try pulling that and washing it off with baking soda and water ( LET IT DRY!!!! ) and put it back in, see if it clears things up a bit...

if i have to go through the effort of removing the o2 sensor on one of these cars, an old or used one is NOT going back in when a new one is $25 from the dealer.



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Rich Grayo Jr. wrote:

Reject wrote:
Beyond that you may end up replacing sensors until you get the right one that is throwing the A/F ratio off... Sometimes the O2 Sensor BEFORE the cat can send off faulty reading with out setting off a CEL. You could try pulling that and washing it off with baking soda and water ( LET IT DRY!!!! ) and put it back in, see if it clears things up a bit...

if i have to go through the effort of removing the o2 sensor on one of these cars, an old or used one is NOT going back in when a new one is $25 from the dealer.

Valid point! =)
You will have to forgive me, the VAST majority of people that I deal with would rather spend 2 hours dinking around then spend $20 on a part... Just the area that I live in...


Smile! All things fade with time...

They that hard to get off? I understood that if you ran the engine for a while so it was all nice and hot that it would essentially comes off without any problems. I did notice on my front O2 sensor going into the manifold that there are 2 kinks in the wire - so I'm going to start with that. I just find it weird that it wouldnt throw a CEL.

The only time that an O2 sensor throws a code is if it gets NO response to the ECU or if the response is way out of spec range. It will not however throw a code if say you are getting a readying that is inside spec but still incorrect.

As far as taking it off, just get some PB Blaster and spray it a couple times a day 2 days before you are going to take it off. It should come out with out a problem, hot or cold exhaust. If you want to make it REALLY easy go to an autoparts store and pick up an oxy sensor wrench. They are cut and kinked to make things 100x easier...


Smile! All things fade with time...

Oxygen sensor wrench? Don't you mean O2 sensor socket? Ive seen thoses before - they have a cut in them to accomodate for the wire, didnt know they had a special wrench too.

Yeah, they have a wrench too... It's about a 1/3 of the height of the socket so if you have a upward mounted O2 sensor it makes it much easier to get it around the unit. I bought mine at an Autozone locally. The socket is also a very nice tool, but it is hard to get to some o2 sensors with it because it is so damn big...


Smile! All things fade with time...