Ok, I'm getting an alignment tomorrow and I was hoping to do a setup that would help with autocross and not screw my street tires up too much.
I was thinking .5 deg of neg camber and maybe a little less toe out (I believe the factory setting is 1.5mm) in the front.
Should I mess with caster?
For the rear I was thinking maybe .25 deg of neg camber and no toe. <br>
Ok, turns out caster is not adjustible... POS cavalier. I've got -.70 deg of camber in the front. The shop didn't have any shims to give me any camber in the rear. My toe is a little screwy.
He set the toe but now the steering wheel is off center. I asked him if he could center it back up and he said that both wheels would have different amounts of toe. Is this guy jerking my chain? The only way I could see him doing this is by adjusting just one of my tie rods.
You should be able to get the same amount of toe on both wheels and center the steering wheel right? <br>
Actually you can adjust Caster, but there is a kit to buy, some what pricey. <br>
FU Tuning
The steering wheel is supposed to be centered and then the toe adjusted <br>
Ryan Butchart 1 man, 1 car, 1 lap at a time.
Zach wrote:Ok, turns out caster is not adjustible... POS cavalier. I've got -.70 deg of camber in the front. The shop didn't have any shims to give me any camber in the rear. My toe is a little screwy.
He set the toe but now the steering wheel is off center. I asked him if he could center it back up and he said that both wheels would have different amounts of toe. Is this guy jerking my chain? The only way I could see him doing this is by adjusting just one of my tie rods.
You should be able to get the same amount of toe on both wheels and center the steering wheel right?
Yes, caster non-adjustable. Do you have your caster # though? That's always just good to know. What are your stock rear alignment settings?
And that guy is full of crap. Steering wheel is centered first before toe is adjusted...otherwise, as you've noticed, it'll be off. You can also have identical toe readings on each side too, but unless it was done with you sitting in the car, it may or may not have a ~very~ slight drift to the left. I'd suggest having the whole thing redone at a different shop, preferrably one with shims so you can just do everything at once.
And if you can find a place that will allow you to sit in it while they do it, that is your ideal option.
Excessive toe will wear your tires faster than excessive camber. You can run more camber than you have w/o too much concern about your street tires. You didn't state what toe settings you've gotten. You can run around 1/16" total toe out and not be too concerned about wear. One way to solve that also is to rotate more often. I rotate mine every month...then again I have more camber and probably more toe-out than you.
Hope that helps.
<br>
Lightweight honDuhs can kiss my fat Crapalier a$$
A new autoX ride for '08.....
Camber is -1.2 deg now(Stock is -.2 deg). Toe is set to .5 mm IN-- I know its not toe-out but factory settings call for 1.5mm of toe in, so I figured taking 1 mm out would help a little.
What are you running Sean (if you dont mind sharing)? <br>
Zach wrote:Camber is -1.2 deg now(Stock is -.2 deg). Toe is set to .5 mm IN-- I know its not toe-out but factory settings call for 1.5mm of toe in, so I figured taking 1 mm out would help a little.
What are you running Sean (if you dont mind sharing)?
Right now, around -1.7 camber and .10degree toe out.
It's not the best setting yet so I'm not recommending copying it. Get some toe-out though. It'll really help with turn-in.
[rant]WE NEED REAL CAMBER PLATES DAMNIT[/rant]
I shall be slotting per STS rules if no real, legal camber plates come out before next season. I must have more camber.
. <br>
Lightweight honDuhs can kiss my fat Crapalier a$$
A new autoX ride for '08.....
Mantapart makes camber plates, and then some guy figured out how to make '96 sentra camber plates work on our cars (search for the post). Another guy on the org just made his own. <br>
Zach,You notice any difference with your new alignment ? When i got my Cav aligned it seemed to handle alot better. <br>
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I will definatley find out this weekend at Whitehouse. I've been driving on Eagle RS-A's for daily driving and I don't like pushing those very much (mainly because they do not like to be pushed). My impression so far is that it helps a bit. <br>
Zach wrote:Mantapart makes camber plates, and then some guy figured out how to make '96 sentra camber plates work on our cars (search for the post). Another guy on the org just made his own.
I know about all of the above. I believe the first 2 are illegal due to how they have to be installed. I never get an answer back from Mantapart so I don't even care if those happen to be legal, I'll wait for something else.
GC should come out with some. Then we could buy a nice complete package: Koni's, GC's, and camber plates. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm. <br>
Lightweight honDuhs can kiss my fat Crapalier a$$
A new autoX ride for '08.....
What is illegal about those camber plates? <br>
I have the Mantapart Camber plates, but have not installed them yet. In Ontario Rules, having the heim joint (spherical bearing) of the mantapart plates replace your upper bushings will automatically move you to DSP. The downside in re-sale value for your car is that you need to cut bigger holes in the top of your strut towers. I can't recommend Mantapart for anything, since I am still waiting for my rear sway bar. It has now been 1 year, 3 months, and 14 days since I ordered and paid in full!!!
Wheel alignment specs from the 2002 official GM Tech manual
Front Caster 4.3 deg +/- 1.00 deg
Front Camber 0.00 deg +/- 1.00 deg
Individual Toe 0.00 deg +/- 0.12 deg
Sum Toe 0.00 deg +/- 0.25 deg
Cross Camber 0.00 deg +/- 1.00 deg
Cross Caster 0.00 deg +/- 1.00 deg
Rear Camber -0.40 deg +/- 0.75 deg
Rear Sum Toe 0.20 deg +/- 0.30 deg
Rear Thrust Angle 0.00 deg +/- 0.25 deg
Note 1: Measure the above toe angles with the steering wheel at level position, visually aligned with the column.
Note 2: Slight cross camber specification differences can be made when servicing the vehicle for steering pull.
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Hey autoxxxer, have you played with caster at all? If so, would you mind revealing what you have done? <br>
Zach, I haven't done anything with caster yet, but the camber plates will change the caster, since the spherical bushing is offset from the center. I don't know the exact change in degrees it will create, but the tops of my struts will be moved about 1 inch rearward after the plates are installed.
I hope to install the plates on Wednesday, but I don't know if I'll have time now, I just found out I'm going to Aruba for a week to work starting Thursday. We'll see... <br>
I run -2.5deg camber and 1/32 to out.
I have camber bolts off Ebay, which do awesome job in making the camber more adjustable... was something like 20 US.
When I aligned it I did not want to experience too much with toe, so I took the safe path and set minimal toe out.
Grip is better and the turn in is WAY better than before... I had -0.5 deg camber on factory bolts and zero toe (supposedly). <br>
CAC2004 FSS#1, 2003,2004 Atlantic FSP #1, 2004 Overall Atlantic #1
Vlad wrote:I run -2.5deg camber and 1/32 to out.
I have camber bolts off Ebay, which do awesome job in making the camber more adjustable... was something like 20 US.
When I aligned it I did not want to experience too much with toe, so I took the safe path and set minimal toe out.
Grip is better and the turn in is WAY better than before... I had -0.5 deg camber on factory bolts and zero toe (supposedly).
You found bolts to give you -2.5??? More details man!!! <br>
Lightweight honDuhs can kiss my fat Crapalier a$$
A new autoX ride for '08.....
I was really happy with the way mine performed. I noticed that turn in was greatly improved.
Autoxxxer- If the plates move the struts farther back that increases negative caster, which reduces low speed steering response (while increasing high speed stability). If you can adjust your caster I would look into maybe bringing it closer to 3-4 deg neg. if all your doing is autocrosses that never exceed like 60 mph or so. <br>
I had my car aligned today since I did the swaybar, endlink, and c-arm bushings.
My toe was the only thing out of spec. They didnt line up my wheel though which I think is bs. I have to hold it a little to the right to go straight!
So I am hearing that toe out up front helps with turn in. Would that be + or - toe?
They set mine back to 0 and now the car doesnt get all unhappy trying to go straight like it did! I was +.2 degrees on the left and -.2 degrees on the right. The rear toe was+.25 left and 0 on the right.
Is the rear toe adjustable without shims? What would you suggest getting the toe set at for autox/street?
I was thinking of going to -1 degree camber up front since its at -.6 degrees left and -.4 degrees right the way it sits up front. I am just wondering if it would effect tire wear to significantly running like this year round.
Another thing is the thrust angle is .1 degree. The spec sheet says its supposed to be .3. I am wondering why they didnt adjust it and also what it means.
They also list SAI as 11.5 degrees left and 11.9 degrees right along with Included Angle of 10.9 degrees left and 11.5 degrees right. The Setback is 0" for the front and rear with a track width difference of .9" Again I have no idea what all this means!
Anyone that could explain some of this to me feel free and thank you!
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i did my alignment , the front is 2deg neg camber in the front with 1/16 total toe out and the rear is 1deg neg camber and zero toe in the rear and in the rear you have to shim it.
see ya!
Hey Nova, what did it run you for some rear shims?
novaracer wrote:i did my alignment , the front is 2deg neg camber in the front with 1/16 total toe out and the rear is 1deg neg camber and zero toe in the rear and in the rear you have to shim it.
You need more toe-out up front.
Reminder, that unless I missed something, shims are illegal in STS.
Lightweight honDuhs can kiss my fat Crapalier a$$
A new autoX ride for '08.....
