if a product is marketed as "for offroad use only" and people dont heed the warnings.. how can the comany be liable?
If thats the case, I'm gonna go sue cigarette comanies for causeing cancer... I mean it states on the box it will, but they made em right?
** FOR SALE**
http://www.j-body.org/forums/read.php?f=24&i=110879&t=110879
that does suck for Casper... but give it time. someone will reverse-engineer them and make them on their own.
Desert Tuners
When you come across a big kettle of crazy, its best not to stir it.
im sure caspers would give anyone the design now
but the EPA in dong this is the first step to not allowing mods to cars in my eyes , im really surprised SEMA wasnt involved
The O2 simulator is already reverse engineered. It uses the main O2 signal to produce a "flatter" signal with less change for the rear O2 signal line. About $1 worth of electronics and a couple of old connectors will get the job done.
The O2 simulators are the largest and most flagrant violation of the EPA's "no tampering, no enabling" policy that I've seen. The only reason I've seen anyone use 'em is because they've removed their catalytic converter and still need to pass emissions. If you're running "off road" then leave the check engine light on like most of the roundy round racers do.
I agree with the post above. What's scary to me is who might be next. Tuning software definitely allows you to violate emissions laws. I think the more cases there are of people just turning off a check engine light rather than trying to make a car honestly pass emissions, the more likely the EPA will be to go after the software market.
-->Slow
No edit button here...
"Casper shall not offer for sale, sell, convey or otherwise transfer in any way the
design, technology or manufacturing processes or techniques used to manufacture any emission
defeat device, including oxygen sensor simulators, to any other individual or entity, including but
not limited to individuals or business entities."
From the settlement decree at
http://www.usdoj.gov/enrd/Consent_Decrees/Casper/r_Casper's_Electronics_CDFinal.pdf
-->Slow
Well Caspers is well @!#$.
PRND321 Till I DIE
Old Motor: 160whp & 152ft/lbs, 1/4 Mile 15.4 @88.2
M45 + LD9 + 4T40-E, GO GO GO
if you ask me i think the lawsuit was stupid before you know it the epa coming after exhaust company's,people who creates tuner chips or anything like that.
<a href = 'http://ivpnewmedia.com/10thst/tifts/'>
<img src = 'http://ivpnewmedia.com/10thst/tifts/dpBanner.gif'></a>
the epa law states that it has to be the equipments primary purpose to turn a CEL off for it to be a violation, and if it is marketed "for off road use only" the manufacturer must have a way of making it actually for off road use only. However something like tuning software, although it can turn a CEL off, has a primary purpose of tuning a vehicles computer, which can be done within EPA standards, so I do not see this affecting tuners like that.
as i said , having the SES light off is a necessary thing even for off-road use , since if the light is on then you will not know if another problem pops up
the epa should go after US(the consumer) not caspers , as long as it was stated off-road use only , since removing the cat in most cases or even moving it from its original location is a fedral law and illegal , whether your state and local laws care or not
[quote=97cavie24ls()]as i said , having the SES light off is a necessary thing even for off-road use , since if the light is on then you will not know if another problem pops up
the epa should go after US(the consumer) not caspers , as long as it was stated off-road use only , since removing the cat in most cases or even moving it from its original location is a fedral law and illegal , whether your state and local laws care or not
Ill agree with that.....but the EPA doesnt. I think they see it as:
Company = $50,000-$200,000
People using it as not intended = $not enough
Ugh....
Well, looks like the purchasers of my ECU will need to sign and return an agreement before shipment...
Sucks for Caspers, hopefully they are a large enough company that the owner(s) don't lose their personal assets over this.
4cyltuner.com - Information Source For 4 Cylinder Tuners
Buy stuff from CarCustoms Ebay! Won't be disappointed!
hey ron
I am willing to do that if you get ready to sell your ecu's.
<a href = 'http://ivpnewmedia.com/10thst/tifts/'>
<img src = 'http://ivpnewmedia.com/10thst/tifts/dpBanner.gif'></a>
Their sims half-assed worked for most anyhow it seems, so eh.
Anyone who needs a sim can still get one from ZZPerformance
.
I'm wondering how that buy back program is going to work. If I had one of there sims (and I don't) and they contacted me to buy it back I would be like I no longer have it.
People can just do the manual 02 sims anyways.
FU Tuning
And if you read through the court settlement, they're also going to hand to the EPA and DOJ the names of everyone on record who has been offered a buyback and refused it. There's plenty of honest reasons why you can't ship one of these back (sold it, gave it away, part was destroyed, etc) but your name is still part of the list of those who refused. Best thing to do is come up with a bunch of pieces, melt the sh*t outta them, and send 'em in saying the sim got destroyed and this is what's left. Casper's can't refuse to buy back a sim that's been sent in without paying big fines.
-->Slow
if your going to sue someone like this for selling an off-road use only product that was used on road by some people, does that meas that me or the government can sue companies like nokya and toucan, etc for my eyes hurting at night because peoples aftermarket headlight bulbs are too bright?
1997 RedR - ZedR
i agree that its probly the first step of many thats going to completly abliterate automotive modification once and for all.
u gotta think like they do "driving is a priviledge, not a right"
one day i can see getting a ticket for any aftermarket exhaust whatsoever. tampering with that sort of thing is going to become illegal within the next 10 years i bet.
im glad i live in iowa where i dont have to worry about stupid emissions laws.
If someone needs a o2 sim, there was a resistor mod that kept the o2 in the loop, but altered the signal to work correctly.
I dont know all the details because my brain hurts trying to comprehend the rediculousness of legal garble BS but it is odd that SEMA has not become a large player in the defence of such companies. It may be that they were unaware of what was going on and now that its become public there will be some form of protection provided by SEMA. The aftermarket industry that SEMA has in the past protected from restrictions etc. has made very clear the multi-billion dollar revenue for the US that aftermarket companies do provide so hopefully there will be some backing or uproar in the industry. Its clear there is a pollution issue in the world regardless of debate but I think that by attacking small business is a backwards approach to solving larger problems. I myself being a licenced emmisions agent and auto tech must say that more than often its not the modified vehicles that are putting enormaous amounts of pollution out, its the everyday drivers because my theory being they are not car enthusiasts and dont care about their cars OR maintenance. This leads to cars that fail in many ways lending out bad emmisions etc. My fairly modified vehicle burns cleaner than 98% of the vehicles I test so where is the real problem..................... However there are modified vehicles that we all know are death traps and should really be in a junk yard but most of those people arent intellegent enough to make a car pollute for very long because it wont stay running long enough anyway, lol! I am a supporter of my government but somethings make you wonder; where will it lead to next?.?.?...............
ASE Master Certified Automotive Technician
^^ well put ^^^
but were was sema when the government puts companies like APC out of business?
apc bought their own trouble , not certifying parts
I think it should be required that government officials recieve a given score on an IQ test to hold a position in any government or government-related office, this is ridiculous. As far as the whole pollution argument: cars only make up 5% of the entire world's pollution.
_________________________
