I keep seeing posts where people are repeatedly recommending HP tuners as solutions to various vehicular ills. In these posts I see people who actually have the system recommending it, as opposed to the typical orgite with no clue just parroting what someone else has said.
My question is why?
In my opinion, and I believe my opinions are usually well based, tuning a car requires the MOST ADVANCED experience level in modifying a car. To put this in perspective: changing air filter setup = level 1, exhaust = level 1 possibly 2, change cams = level 3, turbocharge = level 4 (non- kit 5), design and assemble a correct "race" engine = level 5, properly tune an aftermarket efi system = level 4, properly tune an OEM system = level 5.
I see simple clues in some of these posts that scream at me to never recommend advance level anything to improve the situation.
Posts where: a person is virtually screaming that GM is incapable of tuning anything correctly (please by a clue idiot, they are better at this than everyone here combined), the person has obvious mechanical issues well before tuning should be attempted (a GM SC program running 10:1 A/Fs when most have seen 13:1 overall in the past is a failure issue not a tune issue), or a guy obviously has no clue at all about the gbasics of the system (HP in this case) but believes he's beyond qualified to use it.
In a previous post by 05 CavLSsedan (or similar name) a few weeks ago, I tried to bring this point up because it was obvious that what I am discussing here was present there. My initial comments were not to insult the guy, although there was no way to ask what I was asking without doing so. Rather I was wondering why so many were trying to tell him to buy HP when he lacked even the most basic knowledge about it, and worse yet, wasn't doing well processing the info he was being given.
My reason for this post was probably just to vent, but I'm curious if anyone else has noticed this. Or if any feels the same as I do. Or even if anyone feels I way off base here.
Do you have an opinion?
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You have to be pretty dumb to not know how to enter a number into a box and then hit write
You dont even really have to know how to use things these days , reason why ppl are reccommending HP tuners is because its actually the easiest solution for alot of problems, changing 1 box for an injector constant is a hellva lot easier than setting up a fmu and fpr sawing hard lines and rerunning lines fittings etc. or setting up megasquirt
It is true that with HP tuners that will give you better results than any GM flash because its specific to your car, not a "production line" solution that is set up conservatively
1989 Turbo Trans Am #82, 2007 Cobalt SS G85
You don't get the point. Todd is totally right. Most people here will say to get Hp tuner but the guy with a problem doens't even know witch way to turn a bolt to take it out.
IMO, the guy that ask a question about a problem he has with his car is not qualified to use Hp tuner.
Also, Todd, you have too much experience in that category so I'd say that tuning would be more than 5. A GOOD tuner(not the usual JBO user) as alot more experience than a guy building a turbo setup.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Rodimus Prime wrote: You have to be pretty dumb to not know how to enter a number into a box and then hit write
A person is pretty dumb if he/she just enter a random # that he/she doesn't understand into a box you also not understood and hit write. A smart and skilled person will understand what is really happening when they change that #, fully understand why they are changing it, and what the result will be.
I have even seen one guy trying to run 700+cc injectors on a 2-300hp engine "just because I want to be safe". Here he is changing the # because he doesn't understand how mismatched the parts he is using truly are.
Rodimus Prime wrote:You dont even really have to know how to use things these days , reason why ppl are reccommending HP tuners is because its actually the easiest solution for alot of problems, changing 1 box for an injector constant is a hellva lot easier than setting up a fmu and fpr sawing hard lines and rerunning lines fittings etc. or setting up megasquirt
A perfect example of exactly what I am talking about. How exactly does changing the injector constant only ("changing 1 box only") accomplish the same thing as installing an FMU or a Megasquirt???
It doesn't. If you think it does, you don't understand tuning well enough to properly use this software..... and probably should be using it either. (yes, its another general statement that can and will be taken as a personal insult....sorry)
But, the statement at the beginning, "You dont even really have to know how to use things these days" kinda overshadows anything else posted. Scary statement... too scary to even comment further on.
Rodimus Prime wrote:It is true that with HP tuners that will give you better results than any GM flash because its specific to your car, not a "production line" solution that is set up conservatively
Show me where.
No one has shown anything concrete as an improvement yet.
While I will admit that it is possible and very well should be the case, it simply hasn't been shown to be true yet.
Instead we have people who have only done so in there mind and the sort of things we are seeing are along the lines of "20� of timing over stock"or "I don't want to be held at the GM's performance level". Statements which are misinformed and really pretty scary.
I do hope to attempt to make some improvements myself, hopefully in the near future. But I still won't expect any improvements until I actually prove it can be done.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, August 04, 2006 11:27 AM
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well said. I recommend HP Tuners for tuning because of the results the cobaltss guys are having with it (great results BTW), but you do have to know how to use it correctly. If I ever buy it, I won't tune it myself since I'd have no clue what value to change where.
15.574 @ 89 mph stock without charger. new times with charger coming soon.
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You have to be pretty dumb to not know how to enter a number into a box and then hit write
JBO's own Homer Simpson!!
Rodimus, if you want to pick the numbers, I'll pick the boxes for you to enter them in, and we can end this game fairly quickly.
Seriously, if you want to play with your car to learn tuning, then fine. If you feel that the risk of damaging something is worth the experience, then fine. But how can you possibly tell someone else to use the same approach? And in the case where you've got a person who may have spent hard earned money building what he has based on good recommendations from others, would you even want to be responsible for giving out advice that led to damaged parts?
Keep in mind that no GM tech has access to any tuning variables that make a difference. GM believes that giving it out would be putting too much power in the hands of people that couldn't handle it. If you cannot sit and have a conversation with a mechanic / tech about computerized engine performance without getting lost at least once, you should ask yourself just what the heck you're doing with software more powerful than what the tech has?
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A smart and skilled person will understand what is really happening when they change that #, fully understand why they are changing it, and what the result will be.
If you enter every tuning job with this attitude, you will achieve professional results more often than not.
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