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Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 11:10 AM on j-body.org
I have a bit of a rant and I'd also like feedback from people who are on the other side of this issue.

Recently illegal immigrants have been complaining because they re being treated unfairly. Now, call me a racist but shouldn't they be treated unfairly? I mean they sneak into the US work under the table, never pay taxes, get FREE healthcare, and mooch off of our system. When i lived out in california I was very sick and wound up in the hospital. I was in the hospital for 3 hours getting fluids pumped into me and the grand total for the hospital bill? $3,482.58. Now i didn't get surgery. I went in they pumped me with saline and some drug to knock me out so i could sleep for a little while. The reason why it was so high? Because when an illegal immigrant is sick doctors HAVE to treat them. When the bill comes, they don't pay and they don't face any legal issues because their illegal and not in any system so the hospital foots the bill. So to keep hospitals up and running they have to charge LEGAL americans that much money.

On the news one illegal alien said "we deserve the same rights as americans." My question is. How do get rid of my citizenship? Because i want to be an illegal alien. I get paid under the table so I never have any taxes taken out. If I get hurt i get to go to the hostpial for free, and then i'll just have a child on US soil so they are a legal citizen, put everything in their name and still milk the system. How do they have it so bad?

If they believe our country is greater then theirs then why not come here LEGALLY!? Yes I understand It takes a long time to get to the top of the list so why not sign your children up when they are young?

I'm not a republican nor am I a democrat but I think congress was right when they tried to pass the bill that started this whole issue. Yes you are allowed to come here and become a citizen, but do it legally. If you take on the same responsibilities as us legal americans and you pay into the system like we do THEN I'll start treating your equally. Until then, stop mooching off of our country and b*tching about it.




"welcome to the most expensive hobby ever..."

Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 11:44 AM on j-body.org
Sorry they're here ILLEGALLY which means beyond basic human rights they have no and therfor no right to complain about anything.

Thats like me stealing a pair of shoes from a store and then going in to bitch that they don't fit right.

I'm sorry why are we supposed to put up with this again?




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 11:48 AM on j-body.org
uecavboy wrote:I have a bit of a rant and I'd also like feedback from people who are on the other side of this issue.

Recently illegal immigrants have been complaining because they re being treated unfairly. Now, call me a racist but shouldn't they be treated unfairly?


So what you're saying is your for a second class citizen? Really? In America? Is this what our forefathers set out to achieve?

uecavboy wrote:
I mean they sneak into the US work under the table,


Only if their white employers choose to employ them that way.

uecavboy wrote:
never pay taxes,


This is not true. The problem lies within the fact that most taxes collected go to federal coffers, while services are provided at local and state levels.

uecavboy wrote:
get FREE healthcare, and mooch off of our system.


The problem lies in that they do low-skilled jobs, therefore earning low pay. This would be the problem even if Americans worked those jobs. This is the same problem I'm sure you help feed by shopping at the lowest price grocery story and Wal-Mart.

Do you ever stop to ask the cashier, "Do you receive health care? Did the people who created by goods received health care?" It's a double standard to be upset if you have never taken a stand on areas you could affect yourself.

uecavboy wrote:
When i lived out in california I was very sick and wound up in the hospital. I was in the hospital for 3 hours getting fluids pumped into me and the grand total for the hospital bill? $3,482.58. Now i didn't get surgery. I went in they pumped me with saline and some drug to knock me out so i could sleep for a little while. The reason why it was so high? Because when an illegal immigrant is sick doctors HAVE to treat them. When the bill comes, they don't pay and they don't face any legal issues because their illegal and not in any system so the hospital foots the bill. So to keep hospitals up and running they have to charge LEGAL americans that much money.


Yes, this is a very serious problem. It has more to do however with the current INS being so steeped in bureaucracy that they cannot provide our fields and jobs with enough legal immigrants.

uecavboy wrote:
On the news one illegal alien said "we deserve the same rights as americans." My question is. How do get rid of my citizenship? Because i want to be an illegal alien. I get paid under the table so I never have any taxes taken out. If I get hurt i get to go to the hostpial for free, and then i'll just have a child on US soil so they are a legal citizen, put everything in their name and still milk the system. How do they have it so bad?


How does them wanting to be legal and pay taxes and not under the table equate to you as you wanting to get rid of your citizenship? Huh?

Sounds like they want to do the right thing, and your response is to do the wrong thing. I'm not following...

uecavboy wrote:
If they believe our country is greater then theirs then why not come here LEGALLY!? Yes I understand It takes a long time to get to the top of the list so why not sign your children up when they are young?


I already covered this.

uecavboy wrote:
I'm not a republican nor am I a democrat but I think congress was right when they tried to pass the bill that started this whole issue. Yes you are allowed to come here and become a citizen, but do it legally. If you take on the same responsibilities as us legal americans and you pay into the system like we do THEN I'll start treating your equally. Until then, stop mooching off of our country and b*tching about it.


Illegal immigrantion has ALWAYS been a wink, wink, nudge, nudge thing for politicians. They know its there, they could of long done something about it. You're foolish to think otherwise.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 11:49 AM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:Sorry they're here ILLEGALLY which means beyond basic human rights they have no and therfor no right to complain about anything.

Thats like me stealing a pair of shoes from a store and then going in to bitch that they don't fit right.

I'm sorry why are we supposed to put up with this again?


Because you like veggies.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 11:52 AM on j-body.org
I posted this on another forum I frequent:

"12 million people are in this country illegally! Kick them all out. I don't care if they make up 4.9% of the workforce because "Americans don't want to do the jobs they do." BS!!! What about the homeless AMERICAN CITIZENS?? I'm sure they'd be more than happy to be making minimum wage than living on the street (well, most of them). Then, all these crooked companies who are making millions of dollars of profit will have to pay the people they hire a fare wage, not $1 an hour!!!

After we kick them all out, build a wall. I'm talking Great Wall of America!!! If someone, ANYONE, wants to immigrate, then they can do it legally. We need more Border Patrol Agents. And siesmic monitors too. So we can find out if they are smuggling anything through underground tunnels like they have been. Both from Mexico & Canada.

Also, ANYONE immigrating to this country will be fluent in English. Spanish is not the official language. Neither is Mandarin, Hongul, Arabic or French! Learn it, live it, love it!

If you had 12 kids since you came here illegally, SORRY! They go too. I don't care if they were born here, you came here illegally, so by default they did too."

uecavboy, it's not a race issue. Although I'm sure it will end up that way. It's a legal issue. Like I said, I don't care if you're Mexican, Saudi Arabian, Japanese, African, Chineses, or even Canadian! If you want to live here, come here LEGALLY! Then you can ask for "benefits". Until then, get out. There will be no more water in the desert, bullets will fly as you climb the fence, and if you do make it? Expect swit punishment and deportation. Because just deporting them is like telling a kid no. If they don't get it the first time, they need a swat in the a$$.

The other thing we need to do, is accidentally blow up something in Mexico. That government is so corrupt, they are giving out maps of the best places to cross illegally. A couple of stray JDAM's into the government offices in Nogales or Tijuana ought to do it. Then we need Dubya to give one of his hair-brained speeches: "We, didn't know it was gonna go into Nogales. The, uhh, thingy that makes 'em hit the ground where we want it to, it, uhhm, added a decimal or something. I don't know. But, I'm sorry."





If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you're reading this in English, thank a veteran.
Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 11:53 AM on j-body.org
Who do you think works Bush's ranch? Now you know why he can speak Spanish so well.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 11:53 AM on j-body.org
Quote:

Illegal immigrantion has ALWAYS been a wink, wink, nudge, nudge thing for politicians. They know its there, they could of long done something about it. You're foolish to think otherwise.



Really now....care to explain? Im just really interested to see your expanded view on this...



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 12:04 PM on j-body.org
The veggies I buy are locally grown and picked by the family that owns the farm and are here in this country legally! If something is out of season here I'd assume not buy it then to help support Paco and his 35 kids that live in a 2 bedroom apt. They're illegal and do not belong here. They deserve no rights gaurenteed in the Constitution as they are not a legal member of our society. They should be kicked out and a nice 20 foot tall concrete wall built to keep them out. There are so many Americans that are homeless and are on the streets and you think the illegals deserve a well paid job with health care over our own citizens? Good grief man sat it ain't so! For every Mexican pouring across our boarder we lose a job for a homeless American.

Sorry but the time for helping the world is coming to a close Its time to focus on helping the thousands of homeless Americans and let the world fend for itself for a while. Hey they all hate us so bad why should we help any of them?




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 12:20 PM on j-body.org
I just think they're homeless because they're lazy... Americans I mean..

But I will refrain from making comments beyond that.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 12:42 PM on j-body.org
Yes they're so lazy that they'll freeze to death outside in the winter rather then get a job.
They're so lazy they'd rather spend all day scrounging for food in dumpsters so their kids have something to eat. These are the people we need to be helping first and the world be damned if need be. Take care of our own and then whats left over we can shair.




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 12:58 PM on j-body.org
Are the people from the Gulf Coast lazy?


If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you're reading this in English, thank a veteran.

Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 1:39 PM on j-body.org
WEEZL wrote:I posted this on another forum I frequent:

"12 million people are in this country illegally! Kick them all out.


Right, right... because kicking out one little Cuban kid was so easy?


The jobs rate right now is 4.7%, so first you have to be sure there are enough Americans to fill the jobs the illegals left behind. Can you guarantee that? You guys are Republican, so you're about big business, you tell me.

Keep in mind, 4.7% is the percentage of American's LOOKING for work but can't find any. It's not 4.7% of the total population.

Also keep in mind it's EXPECTED by any economist that 3-5% of the population always be out of a job. Google it.

Also tell me that certain areas of the country would be economically devasted the loss of their work force. Already in California, farmers can't get enough people to pick the fields. Food is rotting. They raised their wages, no white people showed up. Myth that Americans don't want the jobs my ass. $12 is not enough, even in my county where unemployment is in double digits and housing is cheap.

And while you're at it, since conservatives are so big into talking about waste in education, how about all the illegal immigrant children we've educated that we are going to toss out? What about all that wasted imoney, investing in them? Their kids speak english and go to college. We're just going to blindly throw them ALL out? Even those attending college or graduated?

Further, blaming the illegals for coming to get a job is like blaming a fish for biting the lure. It's LEGALS fault they're here.

The Republican stance is some a morass of blind hatred and stupidity it's ridiculous.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 1:42 PM on j-body.org
Further, BTW, I find it highly entertaining watching Republicans fight amongst themselves on this issue.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 1:53 PM on j-body.org
Ah yes but it was your wonderful Democratic President Bill Clinton with his star enforcer
Janet Reno that HAD to kick poor Elion out of the country by force. The Republicans may argue about this amongst themselves BUT only a Democrat would send an armored S.W.AT. team in assault vehicles to forceably remove a little boy cowering in a closet fearing for his life as INS burst into the home like SS Storm Troopers sent in by Hitler to take him out by force. Way to go there Dems! ( 2 great big thumbs up! )

I'd much rather argue about this subject then make the entire country look bad in the worlds eyes like Janet Reno and Bill Clinton did. If she were apointed by a Republican
the Democrats would be screaming for her to be placed upon a cross till dead.

Are you starting to see a double standard or shall I continue?




Semper Fi SAINT. May you rest in peace.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 2:09 PM on j-body.org
Jackalope wrote:Ah yes but it was your wonderful Democratic President Bill Clinton with his star enforcer
Janet Reno that HAD to kick poor Elion out of the country by force. The Republicans may argue about this amongst themselves BUT only a Democrat would send an armored S.W.AT. team in assault vehicles to forceably remove a little boy cowering in a closet fearing for his life as INS burst into the home like SS Storm Troopers sent in by Hitler to take him out by force. Way to go there Dems! ( 2 great big thumbs up! )

I'd much rather argue about this subject then make the entire country look bad in the worlds eyes like Janet Reno and Bill Clinton did. If she were apointed by a Republican
the Democrats would be screaming for her to be placed upon a cross till dead.

Are you starting to see a double standard or shall I continue?


Oh please, If Reno didn't "enforce the law" because the "laws the law", Republicans would of been all over that. Those are Republican standard mantras.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 2:43 PM on j-body.org
What is illegal about living on EARTH !
BORDERS everywhere should be outlawed !

If I can find a job and sustain my family and support the local
economy and populace why should I be outlawed to live
anywhere ?

Kill all goverments and govern yourselves justly

" FREE THE WORLD !! "



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 3:30 PM on j-body.org
"The estimated annual cost to hospitals and other providers of emergency health care nationwide for illegal aliens is $1.45 billion. According to congressionally-commissioned research from the MTG Corporation, the annual cost to just the 24 counties along the border in Texas, New Mexico and California exceeds $200 million, and for Arizona's four border counties alone it's $32 million per year."

"Copper Queen Hospital in Bisbee, for example, closed its ob/gyn department for several months because it had to provide labor and delivery services for illegal immigrants on an emergency basis and received no compensation. Maricopa County Hospital incurred uncompensated costs of over $1 million just to treat two burn victims."

"After years of pressure from the health care industry, the federal government last week announced a plan to repay hospitals across the USA for up to 30% of the unpaid bills they rack up for such patients from now through 2008. The payback could total $1 billion. Arizona hospitals stand to receive $45 million a year."

Snippets of newspaper articles I found on the web.

There's also the increase in how much I pay for goods and services here in Arizona, because all of the companies here pay more for bilingual employees, printing all of their brochures twice (once in English, once in Spanish), not to mention the higher cost of education because of all of the ESL courses that are mandatory in elementary schools.

So now, because of the massive amounts of illegal immigration happening, I pay higher federal AND state taxes, AND pay more out of my pocket for goods and services.

I say wall the border.



Desert Tuners

“When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it’s best not to stir it.”


Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 4:24 PM on j-body.org
agustin, pleez... politics are all about opinions. to say that one stance is better than another is complete BS! how is the democratic stance any better? leave abortion alone and legalize gay marriage, let the illegals stay, etc.

there should be a wall built and the illegals should be kicked out. theres nothing wrong with coming here legally and learning the language and the ways of our great country. illegally is just wrong. if you believe differently, leave. move to canada for all i care.




Check out my build thread!

Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 4:59 PM on j-body.org
the biggest problem i have is that in my line of work i could be replaced by illegals. Do you think the Mayor Bloomburg cares if he has illegals cleaning his floors instead of US citizen?. I would be pretty ruined if 5 years from now I am replaced i mean i make a small amount of money but If Loose my job I think i'd snap. But as long as john and jane lawn owner is too lazy to cut there lawn by them selves. Mr small shop owner wan't s to pay some one less then minum wage i feel its only a matter of time before im doomed
Ps im a middle school janitor
Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 6:57 PM on j-body.org
Wall the border is fine, as soon as legal immigration services are prepared to allow the needed workers in without delay.

And since we're talking about the US Government, it's should be clear to any one here that condition could never be met. The US Government is all about delay.


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Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 7:16 PM on j-body.org
More people are agreeing with me then I thought. Agusting, you're a little difficult to follow but I do understand the gist of what you are saying. And although I have not done extensive research on this topic I do have to disagree with you in the aspect where illegal immigrants are trying to do the right thing. For everyone above about the labor issue and what not. What many don't understand is that these illegal aliens are coming into this country by themselves for the most part. Companies pay them around $3 an hour to work (which is 3x more than what they could make in mexico). These immigrants than pack a bunch of them in a small apartment to save up as much as they can. They send all their money back to mexico because that is where their family is from and still lives. After working in America for sometime they move back and retire far earlier than they could if they worked in mexico.

My problem with this is that the tax-free money their making isn't even going back into the US economy.

Also, lets forget about the homeless people. When i was out in cali I tried to get a job in a restaurant, the first thing people would ask is "do you speak spanish?" because the entire kitchen staff was latin and didn't speak english. So ME, an AMERICAN, did not get a job in an AMERICAN restaurant because I couldn't speak a foreign language that all the ILLEGAL immigrants spoke. Is that right?

Our economy is struggling enough as it is with outsourcing EVERYTHING to other countries. The jobs that STILL remain on U.S. soil are operated by illegal immigrants. How is this OK? And why are legal citizens supporting this? And for the record, I have no healthcare, no benefits, so when i get hurt or sick I have to foot the bill, out of my own pocket. And a bill over $3,000 for a 3 hour stay in a hospital is insane. I'm being punished because illegal immigrants don't pay a cent and I don't have that loophole like they do. And they wonder why we don't treat them fairly?

I also meant to post this in the off-topic forum but I accidently posted it here. If a mod reads this they can move it if they don't feel it fits in this forum.




"welcome to the most expensive hobby ever..."

Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 8:01 PM on j-body.org
Illegal immigration will be a problem so long as there is money to be gained by employers and illegal migrant workers... Money for the employers because they do not have to pay insurance on the people or claim their work on taxes, nor do they have to pay to modernise (as in farming industries), and money for the illegals because they get paid for their work in cash money, and don't really care what it is they have to do to get paid because they came from an impoverished area, and need to make real money in order to sustain themselves and their families.

As well, there's no official language in the USA. Want proof? Try living in Miami for a week, then, try Louisiana, and then, Texas, Alaska, Nevada, and about a half-dozen other cities on the west-coast.

If you don't have to deal with the people that come into the US, legally or otherwise, what business of yours is it what language they speak?

The problem isn't that these people are taking away american's jobs, it's that there are some things that americans won't do... that creates an opening, and that friends, is where the illegals go. Try picking strawberries or lettuce for a week on end, and see how eager you are to do it later... the reason you can even get strawberries that have been mass-produced is because of illegals working in factory farms, and dealing with the same share-cropping BS that negros and indentured farmers had to deal with 150 years ago.

The issue isn't the illegal immigrants, its the greed and ease of which people can make money off of the work of others that have no other way of making money.

I'll give you 2 short stories, and leave it at that.

1: A white, young and strong lad and his 3 brothers live in Ireland in the 1800's, and, unable to get work in the homeland, go to america to see if they can find fortune. Well before the Civil War, they're contracted to a public works project in Louisiana, where they are literally worked harder than any negro or indentured servant (ie slave)... Literally worked TO DEATH because of malaria, typhoid and cholera, they're not even buried or committed decently.. they're put in a mass-grave and the employer keeps their wages as burial money. Why does this happen? They're Irish of course, they're lazy, but plentiful, and they spawn faster than rabbits which means an endless supply of cheap labour, and, they're dirty catholic whites anyhow, who cares about them?

This was the story of my Great-great uncles. They were treated like trash because they weren't Americans, and they were seen much as mexican labourers are seen now: expendible and burdensome.

2: I'm a young, white, educated and professional adult, and I want to work for a company that wanted me to work for them, in the USA. I'm Canadian, and I use my work visas to their limits, and after that, I have to either get a signed contract, or a green card to work in the USA further. I'm a contractor, and the company needs me to get a green card before they offer me a contract of employment.

Where am I left? I get to apply for a green card but, I have to be a resident. In order for me to be a resident, need to be working in the USA because I can't get a lease on a place unless I'm working. I can't get work in the USA because my work visas are expired, and I have to wait for 6 months before I can renew them.

Basically, I got shafted out of a job I was fully (actually, over) qualified for, because of the absurd residence/work restrictions the INS was imposing on ALL non-americans.

It's easy enough to bitch and moan about illegals, but they're doing a job that Americans won't do, and until you know what kind of hoops you have jump through in order to legally get work in the US, your belly-aching about "DOING IT LEGALLY" isn't finding a lick of sympathy here.




Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.


Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 8:08 PM on j-body.org
Hmm, what's the national language in this country? English? Nope, try again. There is no national language. Only half of the states have even passed bills to make English the state language. So stop whining about them not being able to speak the language of the country, because there is none whether you want to believe it or not. Ilegal immigrants pay BILLIONS into Social Security and in taxes and never recieve a cent of it back. In 2004 the money payed by illegal immigrants to Social Security accounted for more than 10 percent of the surplus for that year. Almost none of those immigrants will ever see a dime of social security. Most dont get tax returns either. The aliens do the jobs that all the high and mighty white americans wouldn't be caught dead doing, with very few exceptions. Many of those that don't have jobs, don't want jobs. There are always exceptions and those are sad, but it's not majority that all of you make it out to be.

In response to uecavyboy, it sucks that you had recieved such a huge bill for your 3 hours. However, illegal aliens not paying for hospital costs is not the reason you have such a huge bill. Those without healthcare insurance usually see HUGE bills because hospitals can do it. There was a huge thing on 60 Minutes about it a while ago. Anyway, illegal aliens may account for a slight price rise, but it's mostly due to our ridiculous health care system and insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies that enjoy screwing everyone and making a quick buck. But that's a debate for another day.

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses* yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
*Only applicable to white english speaking foreigners.
Ignorance makes me sad.


Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 8:32 PM on j-body.org
I agree with GAM. To be able to work here legally is almost impossible. The painter we have at the shop had to go through all of that. He worked illegally for 3 years while he waited and waited for imigration to give him his work visa. Lived here illegally, all the while filing his necessary paper work. When immigration finally cought up to him he had to pay 1,000 for living here illegaly when it was not even his fault.
He had a sponsor and when you have a sponsor they are supposed to take care of you while you get your work visa. Because they brought you over to America to work for them. What person in their right mind would pay someone to live eat and just sit at home while immigration gets a work visa out 3 years later.
This whole process makes no sense to me.
Our painter even said it. If he knew it was gonna cost him 12,000.00 just in lawyer fees and 5 years in the making he would never have moved here.
So for all the people saying kick them all out try to put yourself in their position. You come from a country that has no future for you and you can't find a job to feed your children. You look into becoming a citizen just to find out that you are baisically scrued so you end up doing like everyone says. Living here illegally picking food but happy cause atleast you can now feed your kids and buy them clothes or even send them to school.



Re: Illegal Immigration Issue
Friday, April 07, 2006 8:45 PM on j-body.org
Thankyou Gam and David. In my frustration I completely forgot to mention how ridiculously hard it is to work here legally. You guys make great points.


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