Cleveland cop has killed 5 in line of duty
Quote:
Police Officer Jim Simone sees the world in black and white, in good guys and bad guys.
If you're on the right side of the law, there's no one better to protect you.
If you're on the wrong side of the law, there's no one better to destroy you.
A fine line separates those two sides.
Did Simone cross over?
A grand jury will decide whether charges are justified in Simone's last killing.
Simone has killed five suspects in the line of duty. He has fired his gun at least 10 times in his 35 years as a Cleveland police officer. He has also been shot, stabbed and run over while protecting and serving the residents of Cleveland.
Simone was off-duty on July 9 when he went to a bank to get pennies for his grandkids. He wasn't carrying his radio or phone. He had no backup when he jumped into a civilian's car to chase after Robert Hackworth, who had fled the bank with $2,000.
Hackworth had told the tellers he had a gun. Turns out he didn't. Simone shot an unarmed man. But how was he to know the guy lied?
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After I criticized Simone's shooting record last year, I spent a night riding with him. He opened my eyes.
"I have an eighth of a second to make a decision on the use of force," he said. "The general rule is, if I have time to think, 'Do I have another option?' then you do."
Would another cop have handled that bank chase differently? Probably. Others might have waited for backup. Others might have let the robber flee, knowing the ink pack that exploded would soon give him away.
Not Simone. He's 60 and goes chasing after the guy. He shot Hackworth when he thought the robber had reached for a gun.
Is Simone a brute? A bully? A tyrant who abuses his power?
Sometimes.
Is Simone a hero? A guardian angel who possesses superhuman power?
Sometimes.
There's a fine line that separates the two. Simone walks on both sides of it -- sometimes during the same shift.
He recently jumped in the frigid Cuyahoga River to save a woman who was drowning. He wins awards from MADD for getting drunks off the street. He has also killed more suspects than any cop in Cleveland.
Then again, no one has kept track of all the people he has saved.
Months ago I called for an investigation into his record by someone outside of the Cleveland Police Department. But a grand jury? I can't imagine finding 12 people who would charge Simone with a crime.
The grand jury process isn't likely to faze Simone. He doesn't mind scrutiny. He welcomes it. He knows his critics better than they know themselves. He installed a camera in his cruiser -- at his own expense -- to protect himself from lawsuits and investigations. Too bad there wasn't one on that day.
Let's hope the grand jury comes back with no charges for Simone's sake and for ours -- and for every police officer on duty who straddles that fine line.
They patrol a black and white world of good guys and bad guys, where cops have to choose fast if they want to come home alive.
I vote
HERO.
I suspect there are more than 5 people still breathing because he snuffed those scumbags.
“Please do not be cynical. I hate cynicism. Nobody gets in life exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard, and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.” Conan O'Brien
Good! Another asshat off the streets!
Justifiable Manslaughter.
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
If someone claims to have a gun and then later reaches for something you have every reason to assume its a gun. Also GOOD for him. If you are a scumbag piece of @!#$ that commits crime then you do not need to be part of society. Also if you are going to be a douche in this thread and cite that speeding is a crime and therefor I have commited a crime, you can just go @!#$ off now.
5 people in 35 years? that hardly sounds out of control or malicious.
(tabs) wrote:5 people in 35 years? that hardly sounds out of control or malicious.
x3
What was he supposed to do, wait for a possibly armed suspect to kill him?
Clevelands a pretty big city and from everything I've heard, the crime rate has only been getting worse- I'm sure there are plenty of NYC cops, Philly cops, and others from large cities with a similar shooting record... In reality, his department's policies will probably say he was in the wrong to chase the guy in a civilian car without waiting for backup, especially since it was only a robbery.... But after having chased him down, I don't think he was in the wrong for shooting first if he thought the perp was reaching for something.
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Yes of course and he should have waited to be shot mugged and everything else. Just like we as law abiding citizens should only wait to be violated and victimized and then wait to hope and pray that the law gets the guy or girl.
The guy has done his job and people don;t get that. It isn't cops and robbers when you were a kid of "oh ok put your arms up and I am taking you to jail" no now it is real he has a gun you have a gun they guy you shoots first with good aim wins. People have REFUSED to accept reality and believe everyone is good and that no they shouldn't have been shot even though he threatened an innocent life or took it. I would hate to be a cop because of the Bull scrutiny those guys go under especially when they shoot. If a cop shoots his gun an entire inverstigation goes on even if not a single person was hurt. An entire investigation (and you wonder why governments are running out of money? They pay people to do jobs for useless reasons.)
So lets see this guy did his job even when he isn't on duty and apprehended a criminal. People bitch about how no one will work over their time and this guy does it and its a problem. When you break the law you have refused the right, activities, law and rules of society which means you are incapable of being in society and need to learn to handle yourself in it. That is the reason for prison, as well when you commit certain acts you lose the right of near citizenship yes they should become second rate citizens and it happens. These people must be reformed but instead we give them a place to sleep food TV a place to exercise WE us the tax payers give them amenities when they are being punished and I don't see therapists or doctors in prisons enough to try and rehabiltate these people.
Back on track the guy is a hero it sounds like on more than one occasion but at times that may not always keep someone free when they have committed a crime. So maybe he did in commandeering a car probably breaking traffic laws and shooting the guy. However the reason in doing so was to stop a criminal and in that matter I see him as a hero and law abiding citizen. Ohio is a conceal carry state why didn't more people take action?
I accidentally the SHIFT LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!
The proper way of using the word seen. It is not I seen it that would be I saw it. He has seen the car is the right way to use the word. English class is Cool. By the way thats my sig
Rosario wrote:What was he supposed to do, wait for a possibly armed suspect to kill him?
By today's standards, YES. I personally think that this cop was a hero and was doing his job. However, the way things are going nowadays with criminals families suing after their "good god-fearing kids" are shot after they went into a business with a loaded weapon, threatened a persons life(and may have taken that life), and then made off with an undisclosed amount of money, they would rather bury someone that stood up and tried to do something and have him remembered as a hero.
I hope he emptied his mag in to the guys body.
Chris
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that presides over the destinies of nations. The battle sir, is not of the strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it almighty God. I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."
Speech at the Second Virginia Convention at St. John's Church in Richmond, Virginia (23 March 1775) Patrick Henry
Had a police department near me sued for "wrongful death" when a mentally handicapped guy charged an officer with an object (I dont recall what it was anymore). The officer used a tazer and the guy ended up dieing. The family won the lawsuit.
mitdr774 wrote:Had a police department near me sued for "wrongful death" when a mentally handicapped guy charged an officer with an object (I dont recall what it was anymore). The officer used a tazer and the guy ended up dieing. The family won the lawsuit.
Doesn't that just piss you off? Sure does me.
“Please do not be cynical. I hate cynicism. Nobody gets in life exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard, and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.” Conan O'Brien
Sure did. I sometimes I want to sue families for their stupidity.
Its just frustrating to me to hear that a person is suing for excessive force when a cop uses a TAZER. Its nonlethal almost all of the time and a hell of a lot more promising than using a gun or getting shot. People need to get their heads out of their asses.
Every cop should be like this guy
This country is going to hell in a handbasket with all the pussified criminal laws and everyone is so worried about the rights of criminals that they ignore the rights of the victims
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The ACLU has ruined this country.
“Please do not be cynical. I hate cynicism. Nobody gets in life exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard, and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.” Conan O'Brien
The inherent psychological nature of mankind makes everything becomes an either/or situation, with moderation existing only in the transition between one state or the other.
What I mean by this is that you can either have thug bully cops who beat the crap out of suspects for fun without any fear of reprisal or respect for the law like in the 20s, or you can have cops whose hands are tied behind their backs and can barely raise their voice to a suspect for fear they'll get sued; and that any time that we seem to have found a sane balance between the two is when we're cannoballing towards thuggery or pussification.
Between thugs and pussies? I prefer pussies. Safer for me. Besides, I do my own dirty work. Don't need the cops to protect me.
!@#$ it if I was a cop and I felt my life was threatened at all by a criminal hed be dead or immobilized. Whats the point of having police if they cant stop criminals.
TheSundownFire wrote:!@#$ it if I was a cop and I felt my life was threatened at all by a criminal hed be dead or immobilized. Whats the point of having police if they cant stop criminals.
You end up like England. If you neuter the citizens you can then neuter the police since there will no longer be crime. Now a few are starting to see a problem, hard to reattach the balls after you cut them off.
well...the problem is that there is no due process. sure, victims have rights; but for those of us who have been on the opposite end of the law, myself included, and i'm sure a few others, you would realize that a criminal also has rights.
what this guy did was cool and all, but it does indeed violate the guy's right to due process; in-fact, it killed him.
i guess my point is this; if some of you don't grasp what I was getting at above.
killing someone is a lot of power to put on a person; namely the police. they carry guns and wear vests because every encounter with a citizen is possibly a lethal one. so, if every cop treats every citizen like they are a criminal, then every citizen should treat every cop like he is a killer.
what I think is right here, is that he was off-duty--he should have been an ordinary citizen. being a cop should have nothing to do with it. he stole a car and shot a man. if it were you and I, we would be liable for these crimes.
if just because you are a cop, former cop, security guard, decorated war hero or gun-nut weirdo gives you the right to steal cars and kill people. then i definitely fear for this country.
killer cop or hero? he'll probably get away with it because he's a cop. i'm not saying what he did was wrong, because I would have done the same thing if I were in his position--being able to help, and helping. but he broke due process; a right guaranteed to everyone, criminal AND victim; when he could have just let a uniformed police officer, possibly with a tazer, or pepper spray, or a group of individuals trained SPECIFICALLY in non-lethal arrest tactics help the legal system work. sure, his life was possibly threatened, but he put himself in that situation; in a way--kinda like he asked for it.
i'm not sure on this one. it's a toss up.
Well as a police officer you are still obligated to do your job even when off the clock. The suspect claimed to have a gun. If I think someone has a gun and makes a motion like they are going for a gun I have every reason to believe that actually have a gun and intend to use it.
Quote:
Grand jury clears 'Supercop' James Simone in fatal shooting
CLEVELAND — Cleveland Patrolman James Simone will not face charges for fatally shooting an unarmed bank robber last summer.
A Cuyahoga County grand jury declined to issue charges Thursday against Simone, who on July 9 shot Robert Hackworth after he robbed a West Side bank.
Simone, who is nicknamed "Supercop," has killed five suspects in his 36-year career and now has been cleared in all the deaths.
On Thursday, Simone took the rare step of voluntarily testifying before the grand jury. Lawyers typically advise people not to testify because their statements can be used against them if criminal charges are filed.
He appeared nervous in the Justice Center cafeteria before testifying but said he felt confident that he acted within the law.
"I didn't do anything wrong," Simone said. "I have nothing to hide."
Hackworth's family could not be reached Thursday for comment.
Last month, the city prosecutor declined to rule the shooting justified and instead decided to send the case to the grand jury.
Steve Loomis, head of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, accused city leaders last month of playing politics in an election year by taking eight months before sending the case to a grand jury.
"It's a shame that it had to get to this point," Loomis said. "This has been the most stressful eight months of Jim Simone's career."
Law Director Robert Triozzi said the investigation took eight months because it was thorough, and he scoffed at the notion that officials were afraid to make a decision.
"The process worked," he said.
Police officers cheered in the Justice Center when they heard that Simone had been cleared, Loomis said.
Simone can be found almost every morning in the Justice Center cafeteria, getting coffee before testifying in court. Dozens of citizens have stopped to shake his hand and thank him for his service since city leaders announced they were sending the case to the grand jury.
He is among the most famous and most polarizing officers in the city's history. Twice he has been shot on duty. He has been stabbed and hit by cars with fleeing suspects at the wheel. He annually ranks among the top Cleveland patrol officers for arrests and traffic citations.
Police gave this description of the shooting in July:
Simone walked into the bank on Fulton Road and a teller told him about the robbery. He was off duty but chased Hackworth on foot after seeing a man running from the bank. Hackworth jumped into a stolen truck, and a passer-by volunteered to drive Simone as he gave chase.
Hackworth crashed into a utility pole at West 52nd Street and Woburn Avenue. He then jumped from the truck and had run a few houses up the street when Simone arrived. Simone got out of the car, confronted Hackworth and shot him in his side when he reached into the truck. Investigators did not recover a gun from Hackworth or the truck.
Simone has been awarded a Medal of Valor for bravery and named patrolman of the year. He was recently honored by the City Council and state legislators for jumping into the frigid Cuyahoga River to save a woman from drowning.
“Please do not be cynical. I hate cynicism. Nobody gets in life exactly what they thought they were going to get. But if you work really hard, and you’re kind, amazing things will happen.” Conan O'Brien
