OHV notec wrote:I've always had to show valid ID to vote...
Maybe it's because I look somewhat Hispanic and live in AZ? lol

LOL. However, AZ FTW, and it is not racist. I'd take all the legal immigrants from Mexico they want to send. However, there should be a solid period of working and paying into the system before any immigrant is eligible for benefits. The US should not be a place where you can gain citizenship, and immediately start receiving entitlements.

True Conservative wrote:Because teh poor and underprivldged would be hard pressed to use their government assistance to afford a state ID duh, hahn should have told you this a hour ago

Couldn't you solve that problem by subsidizing IDs for the poor? I wouldn't normally be for that(they aren't that expensive anyways), but if you are REQUIRING this to vote then you need to make sure that any valid US citizen - no matter how broke - can vote.

And with that, there are no excuses not to have an ID.

R.W.E. of the J.B.O. wrote:

OHV notec wrote:I've always had to show valid ID to vote...
Maybe it's because I look somewhat Hispanic and live in AZ? lol

LOL. However, AZ FTW, and it is not racist. I'd take all the legal immigrants from Mexico they want to send. However, there should be a solid period of working and paying into the system before any immigrant is eligible for benefits. The US should not be a place where you can gain citizenship, and immediately start receiving entitlements.

I support only one type of amnesty - and not free amnesty either. Armed services enlistment. If you say you love America so much that you want to become a citizen, then prove it by risking your life for the nation you wish to join. For the time of enlistment - pay below what enlisted citizens make(obviously taxed), and you speak no language besides English while in uniform(besides while in boot camp - where they will also be taught enough English to get by in the Military at least). After their service, they will then have earned the right to call themselves US citizens. They can leave the service(unless they opt to stay in) with a sense of being an actual part of this country instead of a tenant. Its also better to have those young men join something that will give them a sense of discipline instead of joining a Latino gang which obviously leads to different results.

I still would probably have then in separate platoons, with limited access to privileged information(just in case), and no opportunity for higher ranks(or joining as an officer) until becoming a citizen.

No it wouldn't work for everyone, and it wouldn't be perfect, but you could improve the overall situation substantially. Menards parking lots in some areas might get a bit lonelier though. I don't think that there is a single simple answer than can fix the whole situation. I think attacking the problem with a series of steps from multiple angles is the only thing that is gonna work. I this could be a part of it. Enforcement of existing laws being another important part of it as well.

Other things that might help -

1. Securing the border better than we are. It may be impossible to completely secure it, but you decrease the rate at which they cross.

2. Better safeguards to ensure that non-citizens do not abuse our system.

3. Things like requiring photo ID for elections - could help maybe a little, but I doubt substantially. I don't think many people come here to vote in our country.

4. Stiffer penalties for employers intentionally hiring illegals - as in JAIL time for people who are involved in the decision knowing the fact, and the government closing and confiscating all company property/assets if the owner/CEO/etc can be proven to have intentionally decided to hire them. Simple fines are just not enough. There currently is too much money to gain(compared to little risk) from exploiting illegal labor. But companies would not take the risk if there where serious consequences beyond a slap on the wrist.

5. Harder to fake photo ids. You could have embedded digital information. Their personal info(not all of it readable from the surface of the ID) encrypted by a CRC of the picture on their ID would be verifiable. If the picture didn't match(which would also be included digitally to compare to the one on their ID), then you could not properly decrypt their info. This would mean the picture is not theirs. Such an ID would only be marginally thicker than existing IDs and not really that expensive either(basically as much as embedding a micro SD card in the ID and it wouldn't even need much capacity).

6. Something like crime-stoppers for reporting illegal aliens. Cash rewards for turning them in anonymously. You'd likely have illegals turning in other illegals for the easy money. It would become very hard to hide - even among other illegals. The way standard crime stoppers works(I have a friend who turned in a car thief he knew) - you call in with a tip, you get a unique verification code. You call back some time later with that code, and if your tip resulted in a legit arrest, they have you meet someone at a specific place and time and they give you the money under the table without ever knowing your name. Initially though, this would cost alot. In time, savings from fewer illegal alien created problems would result in savings.

7. Penalties of some sort to those caught attempting to cross(rather than just catch and release back into Mexico). Although, I'm not sure what form this punishment should take. On the same token, offer free, safe, and comfortable passage back to Mexico for any illegals wanting to go back(hopefully because its less desirable for them to live here now).

There would probably be things needing to be added to this list, but I think this would be a good start. Give them a way to EARN(no free lunch) legitimacy, no more motivation to remain undocumented/illegal or even come here if they aren't already, and penalties to remain as such. A carrot in one hand, and a stick in the other.

on topic, they do not want people to have government id because then they cannot get away with voter fraud.

True Conservative wrote:on topic, they do not want people to have government id because then they cannot get away with voter fraud.

Never heard of Diebold electronic voting machines, have you?

You should never trust something without a paper trial.

Neither side can be trusted to not commit voter fraud. They both think their side is right, and both think the ends (a "better America" according to their ideology, not to mention of course power and $$$) justify the means (covering up the truth, gerrymandering districts, voter fraud, etc).

On topic though - I listed an easy way to settle their so called reason for not wanting IDs to vote. Offer to pay for the IDs. I don't normally support this but if it is required to vote then I do - and they cannot claim discrimination.

bk3k wrote:

True Conservative wrote:on topic, they do not want people to have government id because then they cannot get away with voter fraud.

Never heard of Diebold electronic voting machines, have you?

You should never trust something without a paper trial.

Neither side can be trusted to not commit voter fraud. They both think their side is right, and both think the ends (a "better America" according to their ideology, not to mention of course power and $$$) justify the means (covering up the truth, gerrymandering districts, voter fraud, etc).

On topic though - I listed an easy way to settle their so called reason for not wanting IDs to vote. Offer to pay for the IDs. I don't normally support this but if it is required to vote then I do - and they cannot claim discrimination.

I have, and trust me I know there is fraud. I am excited to see this election with the new black panther goons at voting stations because eric holder and obama do not have the balls to prosecute a black group for their actions because they could not possibly be culpable. Lets see a few people show up in atlanta with klan garb and batons and see what happens

ohio requires id. i remember when i moved to indiana voting and them not requiring it, and it just blew me away. i thought that would just make fraud so easy. just go up, give a name and vote. i dont see the big deal. i mean honestly shouldn't everyone have an id to begin with.

i really liked how the whole hanging chad deal came about and everyone said that poking a hole in a piece of paper was to difficult to figure out so they went and made them computerized, cause we all know how well old people are so great at computers.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography

sndsgood wrote:i mean honestly shouldn't everyone have an id to begin with.

Um, no? Not everyone actually needs a driver's license. Also, you have cases like my co-worker's daughter, who has failed the driving test about a dozen times... She may never have a license...
Other than my driver's license and my work ID, I don't have photo ID.

I've never used one of those electronic machines, just connect-the-lines, for both in-person and mail-in ballots.




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster

R.W.E. of the J.B.O. wrote:LOL. However, AZ FTW, and it is not racist. I'd take all the legal immigrants from Mexico they want to send. However, there should be a solid period of working and paying into the system before any immigrant is eligible for benefits. The US should not be a place where you can gain citizenship, and immediately start receiving entitlements.

This whole show ID thing, and racial profiling @!#$ is really starting to piss me off. I like in Chandler AZ, and am one of the whitest people on earth. (lol) When I get pulled over, guess what, I have to show my DL. Guess what else, it is illegal for me to not have my DL on my IF I am driving. If I get in a bar fight, and cops are called, guess what. They are asking for ID. I got a flat in my girlfriends car the other day, and her tire iron was missing. Just so happened there was a DPS officer in the parking lot, and I asked him to borrow his. Well guess what. He still asked for my ID and ran the plates. BIG @!#$ DEAL. Why are all these stupid asses bitching and complaining that a cop asking a person already interacting with said cop for an ID, AND GREEN CARD? You don't have to be a citizen to get a DL, just here legally. I think that if someone is not a citizen and still here legally, that there should be some sort of marking on thier DL thats lets the cops or whoever else know.

I agree with what I quoted above also. If they wanna come here legally, KUDOS to them. I am all for people being here legally, and doing it the right way. But when they set foot on AMERICAN soil without doing it the legal way, they should be SHOT ON SITE. Just my opinion.

EvoFire wrote:This whole show ID thing, and racial profiling @!#$ is really starting to piss me off. I like in Chandler AZ, and am one of the whitest people on earth. (lol) When I get pulled over, guess what, I have to show my DL. Guess what else, it is illegal for me to not have my DL on my IF I am driving. If I get in a bar fight, and cops are called, guess what. They are asking for ID. I got a flat in my girlfriends car the other day, and her tire iron was missing. Just so happened there was a DPS officer in the parking lot, and I asked him to borrow his. Well guess what. He still asked for my ID and ran the plates. BIG @!#$ DEAL. Why are all these stupid asses bitching and complaining that a cop asking a person already interacting with said cop for an ID, AND GREEN CARD? You don't have to be a citizen to get a DL, just here legally. I think that if someone is not a citizen and still here legally, that there should be some sort of marking on thier DL thats lets the cops or whoever else know.

Well...
-The racial profiling thing arises from people not understanding that and amendment was passed, specifically prohibiting such.
-Cops are NOT required to ask for proof of legality (unless the suspect has already been arrested). Districts simply aren't permitted to prohibit legality checks.
-Not everyone has/needs/qualifies for a driver's license. Last time I checked, you are also not required to carry an official AZ ID. I usually don't carry my license if I'm not driving (or drinking), but I also don't make it a habit of getting into bar fights

EvoFire wrote:If they wanna come here legally, KUDOS to them. I am all for people being here legally, and doing it the right way. But when they set foot on AMERICAN soil without doing it the legal way, they should be SHOT ON SITE. Just my opinion.

Possibly an over-reaction lol. I can think of much worse crimes to which I think "shot on site" would be more fitting... I'd put crossing illegally somewhere between harboring a fugitive and vandalism.

Fun AZ driving law: Lincoln Mark VIII cars are illegal to drive on the freeway, as their automatic ride-height adjustment is in violation of ARS 28-906




fortune cookie say: better a delay than a disaster