Please see post 14
This guy claims that there is a crank trigger bolted on the LE5/LSJ cranks that unbolts, leaving the cast on crank trigger wheel that our ECU uses. He claims that these bottom end swaps is very doable on our stock ECU.
Can someone verify or dismiss this please? I thought PJ did all this research and found that all the reluctor wheels were cast on and hence unswappable on stock ECU's.
oldskool wrote:
crank trigger bolted on the LE5/LSJ cranks that unbolts
I believe that is correct. Though i only have word of mouth and no LSJ/LE5 crank to check.
*Edit:
That thread really make me want to pick up a LE5 crank now.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:33 PM
219whp - I <3 whine
If this is the case, an LE5 complete bottom end with the 60-2 wheel removed and an L61 head installed should be "controllable" by a cav eco ecu. The VVT would be removed with the head swap, and the ecu would "read" the 7 tooth wheel that is supposedly hiding under there. THIS IS MY SPECULATION - if this whole crank trigger thing is true.
It would also give us a bottom end swap with 400+hp capability. See hahn's 2.4 sky/solstice equipment for details.
I want:
stock LE5 bottom end
ported and built L61 head with comp turbo cams
Atomic's awaited "hot side" kits with something like the garret t3/t4e pushing 15-ish psi
Hmmmmmm very interesting.
JGM T-SHIRTS!!!!
In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Alexis: Dustin, you're ghey, lol. I am better. I have tits, and tits rule all.
Very Interesting.
Keeping my eye on this thread.
oldskool wrote:If this is the case, an LE5 complete bottom end with the 60-2 wheel removed and an L61 head installed should be "controllable" by a cav eco ecu. The VVT would be removed with the head swap, and the ecu would "read" the 7 tooth wheel that is supposedly hiding under there. THIS IS MY SPECULATION - if this whole crank trigger thing is true.
It would also give us a bottom end swap with 400+hp capability. See hahn's 2.4 sky/solstice equipment for details.
I want:
stock LE5 bottom end
ported and built L61 head with comp turbo cams
Atomic's awaited "hot side" kits with something like the garret t3/t4e pushing 15-ish psi
If that is the case then my thread over on EF would interest you.
219whp - I <3 whine
Where is PJ dammit! He would know what's up with this supposedly removable 60-2 wheel
Probably sleeping or work.
219whp - I <3 whine
I wouldn't hold my breath guys but nevertheless, I'm looking into it.
idk from what he says in his posts, guy seems legit.. I guess it is possible, something pretty big I could have overlooked.... I posted on the HPT site, lets see what happens
Well i have started my hunt for a LE5 crank, we'll see what happens.
219whp - I <3 whine
there's an LE5 near me, but I don't have the 1k spare cash lying around to pick it up. I'm going to see about checking the reluctor ring through the sensor hole on the skwirl tonight, but since everything is installed it may be a bit difficult.
I have to say, I am a bit hopeful over this. I've seen the ring, but never looked underneath it or taken it off.
if this is the case, hopefully this lights a fire under the J community.
It lights a fire under me for sure if it works out!
I posted on the cobalt ss forums to see if we can get a quick answer. Heres the link
Click Me. Hope this helps us out.
Bryan
Save your money. It might be worth something someday.
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:my initial naive hopes are rapidly fading.
Mine are too.... Bye bye hope
219whp - I <3 whine
What would possess someone to make such a claim without substantiation? I guess he doesn't realize how huge it is to our and the eco community in general. :: crosses fingers for evidence::
oh well, there's always the entire LE5 swap with the cobalt ecu/harness/cluster/ect...
A sleeved L61 bored to 90mm(instead of the stock 86mm) will yield a 2.4L eco with a slightly better rod ratio...
219whp - I <3 whine
DaFlyinSkwirl (Pj) v2.0 wrote:A ring underneath that ring would mess up the signal to the LSJ/ LE5's crank sensor too.
It probably wouldn't actually, VR sensors don't need much depth to trigger edges. I've seen 0.060" trigger just fine.
But yeah, I don't see a 7X pattern happening under that 60-2 from those pics.
EDIT: If this is all so important....(lighting fires....yeah, I lol'd at that...) what is stopping one of you guys from having a part made to bolt onto the crank(assuming the 60-2 does actually unbolt)? It would seem pretty straight forward to solving your guys' problems IMHO. Or just run an external 7X pickup setup for the factory ECU? I don't understand how an incorrect internal trigger pickup issue is a game over situation.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Wednesday, January 27, 2010 9:59 PM
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
Quote:
EDIT: If this is all so important....(lighting fires....yeah, I lol'd at that...) what is stopping one of you guys from having a part made to bolt onto the crank(assuming the 60-2 does actually unbolt)? It would seem pretty straight forward to solving your guys' problems IMHO. Or just run an external 7X pickup setup for the factory ECU? I don't understand how an incorrect internal trigger pickup issue is a game over situation.
I'm working on this very issue. problem is, most people won't want to convert to external trigger, but a bolt in 7x replacement is the next best thing.
Tinkles, you are absolutely correct, but IMO having an easy bottom end swap that gives you more displacement, a hint more static CR, and beefier internals on FACTORY parts is better (read as probably much cheaper) than sleeves and custom pistons. Rod ratio is a consideration (thanks for the read PJ!), but to me its more substantial to high revving n/a guys. I wouldn't swap an LE5 bottom end to leave it n/a - it would get boosted to produce at least 300-350hp, otherwise why do the swap? You can get 200-250 easily out of a stock L61...
Josh, the same answer kind of applies to your point. Finding an LE5 out of a wrecked cobalt or on craigslist and swapping bottom ends is cake compared to having custom parts made. I may sound like a pussy, but if there's promise of having these stronger bottom ends work with the stock ecu with minimal work, it's right up my alley.
How would an external trigger work? Would it run on the accessory side of the engine? Bolting a 7x wheel to the crank sounds attractive too...
In any case, there's not proof yet despite calling out on two different forums.
oldskool wrote:Josh, the same answer kind of applies to your point. Finding an LE5 out of a wrecked cobalt or on craigslist and swapping bottom ends is cake compared to having custom parts made. I may sound like a pussy, but if there's promise of having these stronger bottom ends work with the stock ecu with minimal work, it's right up my alley.
How would an external trigger work? Would it run on the accessory side of the engine? Bolting a 7x wheel to the crank sounds attractive too...
In any case, there's not proof yet despite calling out on two different forums.
That all sounds pretty damn fair, there's nothing wrong with wishing for something to be easy...our platform has enough difficulty. I just seemed to catch almost a "o well...that was fun, nevermind" kinda attitude towards the swap since it wasn't 'easy'. That attitude strikes me as very odd on this forum given the long history of generally getting @!#$ on with our platform.
Yes, the 7X would simply bolt onto the crank pulley and a bracket would hold the VR sensor.
"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!" -Anonymous
oldskool wrote:Tinkles, you are absolutely correct, but IMO having an easy bottom end swap that gives you more displacement, a hint more static CR, and beefier internals on FACTORY parts is better (read as probably much cheaper) than sleeves and custom pistons. Rod ratio is a consideration (thanks for the read PJ!), but to me its more substantial to high revving n/a guys. I wouldn't swap an LE5 bottom end to leave it n/a - it would get boosted to produce at least 300-350hp, otherwise why do the swap? You can get 200-250 easily out of a stock L61...
LE5 piston are 88mm rather than 86mm, so no matter what you still have to take ~1mm out of the already thin L61 sleeves. No matter what it looks like Darton sleeves would be a requirement or atleast very strongly advised for a LE5 rotating assembly swap.
Unless you swap the LE5 block too, but we dont know if there will be clearance issue like PJ had with the LSJ block.
219whp - I <3 whine
Tinkles wrote:oldskool wrote:Tinkles, you are absolutely correct, but IMO having an easy bottom end swap that gives you more displacement, a hint more static CR, and beefier internals on FACTORY parts is better (read as probably much cheaper) than sleeves and custom pistons. Rod ratio is a consideration (thanks for the read PJ!), but to me its more substantial to high revving n/a guys. I wouldn't swap an LE5 bottom end to leave it n/a - it would get boosted to produce at least 300-350hp, otherwise why do the swap? You can get 200-250 easily out of a stock L61...
LE5 piston are 88mm rather than 86mm, so no matter what you still have to take ~1mm out of the already thin L61 sleeves. No matter what it looks like Darton sleeves would be a requirement or atleast very strongly advised for a LE5 rotating assembly swap.
Unless you swap the LE5 block too, but we dont know if there will be clearance issue like PJ had with the LSJ block.
The only problem I had with the LSJ block was the oil cooler, and I found a simpler solution from an Ariel Atom that I haven't posted up about yet...
But the best part about an LE5 bottom end swap? Some of them come without the oil cooler, so externally they look identical to the L61.. very nice sleeper mod for extra displacement, and higher compression (even more than the LE5 stock because I'm fairly certain the L61 chamber is smaller than the LE5 chamber, so compression might be hovering around 11:1)
uses same flywheel as the L61, so thats a no brainer.
keeps revs low so F23 shift problems shouldn't be a problem, and torque will be made in the middle of the powerband so it should be very streetable and fun to drive.
the only real problem is the reluctor ring, and believe me, I'm working on it.
an internal solution would be the cleanest but requires seperating the block halves and pulling the crank out.
an external solution would be the easiest but would make it obvious that you have an LE5 block, and the external sensor could come loose, get hit by debris, etc.. I've never heard of that happening, but its a possibility.
I even came up with a way to check the ignition timing to make sure that the external VR sensor would be mounted correctly and give you accurate timing.
I'm working on it guys, trust me.. the ecotec is a possible "lego" style engine in a way if we had a solution for the higher resolution reluctor rings, and god help me, I'm going to figure out a way other than a stand alone computer.
