Did GM ever make a car with rear calipers that would work on a j-body axle?
Cimarron, Opel, Holden, Lumina, Beretta, a-body, x-body, n-body, anything?
lol, OMFG that was awesome!!!! lol. but seriously, search it and u will find some stuff on it.
"Lil Brudder! He's got the heart of a champion!"
I searched before I posted, didn't see any indication the posters knew of anything which would bolt up w/o custom adapters. I'm not going to assume that all avenues have been explored already, especially foreign markets, but don't want to waste my time investigating if somebody has already checked it out.
There was a group purchace a wile back for adaptor plates... then you had to get corvette calipers and rotors and they would work. I dont remember the exact details tho.
Supposedly grand am calipers with corolla rotors will work. You just have to make a bracket and ebrake cables.
Nothing bolts up without custom adapters.
Wild Weasel wrote:Nothing bolts up without custom adapters.
Ooo! Ooo! Maybe he's willing to try out the Saab stuff!
Try searching for "Saab" in this forum and a post by either me or juicedz4. If you end up trying it out, let us know what happens.
I thought it was tried and didn't work. Wasn't there some barrier preventing it all from coming together??
I don't know of anyone who actually tried it. The only big problem was the bolt pattern- 5x115, everything else bolts right up. Of course it would need custom e brake cables too.
James Cahill wrote:Wild Weasel wrote:Nothing bolts up without custom adapters.
Ooo! Ooo! Maybe he's willing to try out the Saab stuff!
Actually, I have a couple of Saab 99s with ATE (Teves) rear calipers on solid axles. Those cars weigh about as much as a late model Cav, and can take a 120-0 stop or a couple of 80-0 stops with no problem if you have decent pads.
The bad news:
The parking brake is in the front Girling calipers.
The rotors have four bolt holes in them.
The newest Saab I ever owned is a 1977, and I quit working on them professionally in the 1980s, so I have to ask: Are there any Saabs newer than a 900 with solid axles? IIRC, the 9000 had IRS.
Being able to stop from high speeds and repeatedly is a function of the front brakes, not the rear. The rear brakes just keep the car under control. If you're getting fade then you've overcome the capabilities of the front system.
Just thought I'd throw that in.
Mantapart
You don't need to be god to do a replica. Simple desing.
And if you are birhgt enough, you would make a bracket to fit a set of front caliper on the rear and run a set of Crossdrille/slot disk(same as the front). Better than a single and full disk.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
I'm pretty birhgt.
Note that you'd lose your ebrake using a front caliper in the back. That's really not a viable option.
Crossdrilled rotors on the rear is just retarted, unless you've got some massive 13" rotor under there.
Not really retarded. I mean... they're pretty, right? And realistically, they're far less likely to fail under stress than the cross drilled ones on the front are.
And I don't think anyone makes a 13" rear disc kit for our cars.
heat is heat. If you have the oem brake system, the drums get really hot so it's the same thing for the disk. If you can keep the disk colder then it's not retarded but normal. Less heat = better braking.
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Mic wrote:James Cahill wrote:Wild Weasel wrote:Nothing bolts up without custom adapters.
Ooo! Ooo! Maybe he's willing to try out the Saab stuff!
Actually, I have a couple of Saab 99s with ATE (Teves) rear calipers on solid axles. Those cars weigh about as much as a late model Cav, and can take a 120-0 stop or a couple of 80-0 stops with no problem if you have decent pads.
The bad news:
The parking brake is in the front Girling calipers.
The rotors have four bolt holes in them.
The newest Saab I ever owned is a 1977, and I quit working on them professionally in the 1980s, so I have to ask: Are there any Saabs newer than a 900 with solid axles? IIRC, the 9000 had IRS.
The 900NG (94-98) wheel bearing bolt pattern is the same as ours. So, it bolts right up. They have a 5x115 bolt pattern though and I've never seen a dual pattern wheel with 5x100 and 5x115, only 5x110. The only other "big" difference is the width of the entire assembly.
Cav= 3.5"
Saab= 4.25"
The extra .75" might not be a problem depending on which wheel/tire combo you use.
Is the caliper bracket part of the bearing assembly then? I always assumed it would be part of the axle just as it's part of the knuckle in the front. Got pics?
Its actually sandwiched between the bearing and the axle.
These pics are courtesy of juicedz4 (if he remembers taking them
)
I would actually do away with the dust shield if I were to do it.
That junk yard even sell shoes with a foot in it. That's great. Do you know how much they sell their foot?
Gilles
2.3 Ho
Umm... is that using a lug-centric bolt-on style wheel? There's no lugs to be seen there...
And I'd definitely keep the dust shield!! I think my rotors take the brake dust in through the cross drilled holes and then fling it out through the cooling veins to make a concentrated ring of brake dust on my wheels.
James C.
We've discussed this brake swap very briefly. IIRC, the reason for the extra width in the Saab brake assembly is the park brake shoe, yes?
For a no welding conversion you need:
Caliper bracket which bolts onto existing axle
Rotors which fit existing bolt pattern
Rotor hat which fits over existing flange
Correct rotor height (distance from inside of rotor to outside of hat)
Rotor major diameter which fits within caliper mounting location
Rotor friction surface large enough for pads
Rotor thickness which works with current pads
That's a lot to find. I can't seem to locate many dimensions on the Saab rotors, either. I know they're about 11.25" dia and that the internal park brake drum extends past the pad surface similar to other Euro cars. I've found this picture which shows the park drum surface.
They're used with 15" wheels, which is a good thing.
Do you have any dimensions from the Saab rotors? How about the Saab rear axle? If the rear bearing and rotor are wider, is it possible that the Saab axle is slightly narrower than the J car?
Here are the 5 on 100mm bolt pattern rotor dimensions I've collected.
Year Make, Model Rotor Height rotor dia (in) type thick bore
1998 Saab 9-3 ?????? 11.2598 solid 0.394 2.56
1991 Toyota Celica R (GTS) 2 23/64 11.359375 solid
1992 Dodge Daytona Rear, Vented 2 1/32 11.250 vented
1992 Dodge Daytona F(w/ 4wdisc) 1 33/64 11.109 vented
1991 Toyota Celica F (turbo all-trac) 1 27/32 10.90625 vented
1987 Dodge Daytona R 1 23/64 10.828125 solid
1990 Chrysler New Yorker R (Bendix) 2 1/32 10.64 solid
1991 Toyota Celica R (turbo all-trac) 2 17/32 10.609375 solid
1987 Chrysler New Yorker F 1 33/64 10.2656 vented
1993 Chevy Cavalier F 1 57/64 10.203125 vented
1988 Chrysler New Yorker R 1 25/64 10.109 solid
1991 Toyota Celica F (GTS) 1 53/64 10.046875 vented
1991 Chev Cavalier F 1 29/32 9.703125 vented
I actually have a set of the 88 New Yorker rear brakes, including backing plate and park brake to install on the 89 'bird. There would need to be some type of fabrication involved, for sure. I've also collected a pair of calipers from a 91 Buick Regal (C/H body cars) which have an integral park brake. These are small calipers and might work well with the Dodge or other solid rotors, but they're expensive. The cores that I have are worth $50 each.
You mentioned using Fiero front brakes in another thread. FWIW, Fiero front spindles and (i believe) brakes are really Chevette parts until the '87 GT which had the vented rotors. The story is that GM cost cutting measures stripped the Fiero of it's well designed front brakes for the already available Chevette parts.
Like you, I'd like to see a reasonable solution for the rear disc swap for people with no access to a welder. Please keep posting updates to this topic.
-->Slow
actually, to brake is to retard the motion of the car so discs on the rear is retarded.....
Carl Dreher (baddog) wrote:actually, to brake is to retard the motion of the car so discs on the rear is retarded.....
Was that meant to be funny or do you actually think rear discs are a bad idea??
