Hey guys,
I recently purchased a set of hp coils and koni reds for my 03 sunfire. The installation went great and I'm speechless about the ride but I'm having a slight problem....it seems that when I drive over a bump on the highway I'm hearing it scrape underneath. I did some investigating and it turns of the banana shaped bar protecting the tranny is what hitting the ground. It's a 2.5inch drop and it looks to @!#$in sweet to raise....anyone else experiencing this.....and to think the HP allows a 4 inch drop I don't see that as possible.
Thanks for ur input
2 1/2 is pretty low for everyday driving. its do-able. are your struts adjusted right? the reds i know you have to take out and adjust the damping. maybe the setting is too soft and it causes the car to bounce when you go over a bump. if its too soft, try to make it stiffer so when you hit a bump you dont have much travel.
I forgot to check/set the damper settings but I don't get much bouncing, it's a very stiff ride...
Well if you're scraping then yes, I'd say you're too low.
I don't want the bottom of my car scraping along things.
From a performance perspective, you're definitely too low. You need to raise it up a bit to get enough travel to properly handle bumps in the road without bottoming out.
damn that sucks...any ideas on what the best drop would be performance wise?
koni wrote:Don't forget that the best amount of lowering for
performance is when the front lower control arm is parallel with the
ground (which is usually only an inch or inch and a half lower than
stock).
that was sent to event from a guy from koni
hope that helps you
Bah! Slam it 4" and drive nuts
That's the good thing about coilovers tho, you can raise it for everyday driving, then for show's and JBO get-togethers you can slam it
I've got a 1.75" drop on my Cav and for everyday driving it's not too bad IMO. There are some places where I scrape, but it's mostly when I'm not paying attention and end up going over a big bump.
for performance i;d stay around 1.5. suspension isnt made to perform when its slammed. and before someone says "well race cars are really low" take a closer look and you will see the struts are shortened for more travel as well as the chassis is altered to accomodate the shorter struts.
one more thing guys....is this normal \/........I have no idea's why those little bubbles of rubber are there. I know for a fact that they were not present during installation.
Iet me know what u guys think
Bubbles of rubber?!
Need some bigger pics. I know I'm looking at the front strut mounts in the engine bay w/ a strut bar going across, but.... can't see any 'bubbles'....
sorry guys those are pics from my Palm camera phone. Wht I'm referring to is the center strut bolt, the inner circle around bolt has rubber bubbles going around it. I'll try and get better photos when I get home.
Looks like the rubber bushing is torn and your missing a mount bolt.
Yeah, for starters, it looks like you're missing a bolt.
As for the rubber pushing out around the edges of the mount... that's the byproduct of installing coilovers on 2k+ mounts. Normally, the spring sits against the metal underside of the mount while the strut bolts to the plate that's set within the rubber bushing. The weight of the car is on the spring and, thus, the steel underside of the mount.
When you go to coilovers, the top hat and, thus, the spring now sits against that steel plate set within the bushing. All the weight of the car is now on the rubber bushing, causing it to compress and some of it to push out around the mount as you see there. It can also deflect to the side causing a slight change in camber and binding the top hat to the bottom of the mount. This will often make the bearings useless since the top hat can't turn anymore.
I've got two solutions in the works. Firstly, you can pack some washers into the bottom of the mount to hold the strut rod centered and prevent deflection. Secondly, I've made some urethane inserts for the top of the mount which prevent the rubber from pushing out around the edges.
It's not really dangerous as it sits right now... but it can certainly have undesirable side effects as described above.
Wild Weasel wrote:
When you go to coilovers, the top hat and, thus, the spring now sits against that steel plate set within the bushing. All the weight of the car is now on the rubber bushing, causing it to compress and some of it to push out around the mount as you see there. It can also deflect to the side causing a slight change in camber and binding the top hat to the bottom of the mount. This will often make the bearings useless since the top hat can't turn anymore.
wow that explains why I'm now feeling a slight pull to one side which didn't exist when I first installed, along with a croaking noise that just appeared today.
Wild Weasel wrote:
I've got two solutions in the works. Firstly, you can pack some washers into the bottom of the mount to hold the strut rod centered and prevent deflection. Secondly, I've made some urethane inserts for the top of the mount which prevent the rubber from pushing out around the edges.
I had 2 washers on top and 2 washer on the bottom of the bearing....more is required? and what is the urethane inserts u speak of and how can I get some. As for the missing bolt, I bought it like that....it's not too important though.
The urethane inserts aren't really proven yet so I haven't made up a batch to sell.
Well... they're proven but they somehow work themselves upwards over time so you have to jack the car up and push them back down every month or so. For this reason, I didn't figure people would buy them.
When you say you've got 2 washers above and below the bearing, are you including the bearing races? Those are not washers. Don't get the two confused. The bearing races are made of much smoother metal.
The washers I used on a different car basically filled in the bottom of the mount to make a flush surface with the bottom. This way the top had didn't have anything to bind with and the rod was prevented from moving to the side. A side effect of this though is that it raises the car by half an inch or so. It's not reall an issue though since the coilovers still go down further than you'd want for everyday driving.
its also pulling cuz you need an alignment. you wont have any tire left if you dont get one.
Vice President - NEJBody
2007 Cobalt SS
2001 Sunfire (retired)
If you haven't had an alignment since doing the installation then yes, that's likely the problem. Having the strut rod deflect slightly in the mount shouldn't cause the car to pull. It's not that big a deal.
hmm.....bearing races...I don't think I used them, are they important? As far as the alignment goes I'm waiting for my urethene bushing to arrive, once those are installed I'm goning to do the alignment.
Yeah. They go along with the bearings which you probably don't have either.
I don't suppose now would be a good time to tell you that HP coilovers are garbage and should never have been installed in the first place? You can do a search and read the FAQ to find out why.
nah kevin of course I got the bearings it was actually because of one of your posts that I found the correct size and all. I think that the struts are adjusted too softly in the front so I'm gonna overhaul and readjust and replace the @!#$ty strut mounts. As for the the HP's com'on their not as bad as you think they handle surprisingly well and I don't get the feeling of "bouncing off the highway"; it's as stiff as riding on rails-just too low I guess. I know that Hp's are portrayed as @!#$, hell I was even fooled into buying the generic ones off of ebay which I never put on because of the info I read in the FAQ. The HP's I got were together when I purchased the konis which were off another J member; he found them to handle well for the 2 years he was driving. Cut me some slack here guys....
Mark Eco wrote:nah kevin of course I got the bearings it was actually because of one of your posts that I found the correct size and all. I think that the struts are adjusted too softly in the front so I'm gonna overhaul and readjust and replace the @!#$ty strut mounts. As for the the HP's com'on their not as bad as you think they handle surprisingly well and I don't get the feeling of "bouncing off the highway"; it's as stiff as riding on rails-just too low I guess. I know that Hp's are portrayed as @!#$, hell I was even fooled into buying the generic ones off of ebay which I never put on because of the info I read in the FAQ. The HP's I got were together when I purchased the konis which were off another J member; he found them to handle well for the 2 years he was driving. Cut me some slack here guys....
keep in mind its not the strut mounts that are poopy. its the fact that with the car as low as you have it. the suspension isnt doing its job.
being that low, for every small and large bump you hit... and no street is perfect..... that force is being transfered to your strut mounts, your tires, your ball joints, and suspension a arm bushings.
thats the main things now absorbing what the springs and struts should be. thats what happens when you run with a slammed suspension.
you say they handle like on rails. but even on trains, they have some suspension travel and they literally ride on rails.
and alot of times many people say "they handle well" to make a sale, or simply because they havent had anything else but stock to compare with. check with most who have gone from something crappy to something decent.
remember any car will handle better when the suspension actually does the job its supposed to. not just when its slammed so virtually nothing moves and the tires are forced to grip and take most of the stress that the struts should.
***update***Solution found!!! I just that I'd let you guys know that I'm no longer scraping or bottoming out. No, I didn't overhaul or adjust the coilovers. The tires I had were 205/40/17 and were in bad shape so when I went to get them replaced the guy at the shop claimed they were to small and recommend an upgrade. So I went with 225/45/17 that's what the guy recommended. End result....my car is sitting an 1 1/4 higher. The ride is also much better and much more comfortable. Anywayz guys thanks for all of ur inputs and I'll post some pics of before and after once I get my digi camera working.
