Any of you who might remember any of my previous projects probably know that I'm not the most mechanically inclined or crafty fellow. Please don't remind me about my attempt at DIY window tinting. I don't even change my own oil. Despite this, I became sold on the idea that I needed some sound deadening material in my car. No problem, right?
Being an impulsive eBay shopper, I purchased 100sf of
FatMat "RattleTrap" (80 Mil) sound deadener on eBay from a
Canadian Company. It arrived promptly with a dollar-store X-acto knife and a wooden roller that was apparently made in the USA, but possibly by Mexicans.
So I now had a weekend project. Thanks to the FAQs here at the org, and some links to Team Forward Motions old guides, I was able to relatively painlessly strip the interior bare. For someone with skill, this might have been an hour's job. For me, it took until the middle of the afternoon (with breaks.)
These cars are actually pretty spacious when you don't have anything in them.
As I wrapped up the first evening, I was well into covering the trunk.
Here is the "finished" interior. (See below notes)
I was done applying the stuff mid afternoon Sunday, and got the interior buttoned up by the evening. In case it need clarifying, my weekend sucked. So here are some things I learned, that might be of interest for anyone else tackling this sort of thing.
- 100 square feet, despite what you might read,
isn't even close to enough to do the whole car once. With about 50sf, you could probably do one layer in the trunk, which is fine. The cabin and doors, however, need almost 100 sf on their own. I'd say that to do what I wanted, I'd have needed a good 100sf more (200sf total). With the amount of material I had, I had to make the following compromises:
a) The doors were neglected, and only got a partial layer shoved inside and stuck to the outer panel. I would have liked very much to do the inner surface of the door, and double up everywhere on this critical noise area.
b) There are some "minor" (read: significant) holes on the floor.
c) The large panels under the rear quarter windows were left untreated.
d) The roof was left untreated.
- This Fatmat does have an obvious asphalt smell, and I now completely believe reports that "Peel 'n Seal" or "Ice and Water Shield" at your local building supply store will do the same thing. I would have run out an gotten some to finish up, except that the only store in my crappy town that carries the stuff is closed on Sunday. I'm well aware that the higher-end products are Butyl-based, and won't smell as much or risk melting into a big puddle under my carpet -- BUT, I wasn't about to spend $500 on this. We'll see how much I regret it on the next string of hot days.
- Despite my @!#$ty incomplete job, there is a noticeable difference. Potholes and heavier road noise are reduced, and the engine is slightly more mellow sounding in the cabin. The stereo sounds tighter. It did not help with the droning sound from my half-worn out-of-round tires, but that isn't too surprising. Outside noise sources are drastically reduced. I was hoping for a better result, but am satisfied nonetheless. I plan to drop by the building supply store and get some more material to finish the job properly. My hope is that by getting missed spots and adding layers in key areas, the result with improve from 5/10 (current) to at least a 7 or 8.
Anyways, I should start looking like I'm using this work computer for working. Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome!
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lookin good man, i didnt do nearly as much as you did, in my car. i just cut up 2 rolls of extreme dynamat in various pieces and stuck em throughout.
glad to hear your at least mildly satisfied.
Z YAAAA AT THE BASH, @!#$S!!!!!
z yaaaa wrote:lookin good man, i didnt do nearly as much as you did, in my car. i just cut up 2 rolls of extreme dynamat in various pieces and stuck em throughout.
Can't blame you, for the cost of the stuff. I'm guessing even a smattering of the stuff would help add some mass to the panels.
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look a like a pretty good job though!
Update: Noon day sun has removed any doubt that might have remained in my mind that this stuff is asphalt-based. The need to keep a window open a crack is pretty extreme. I hope it's holding on ok in the doors -- I'll probably get a chance to check on it if I add another layer later.
Though my local Rona store doesn't seem to know what "Peal & Seal" is, so I might not get a chance to add any layers soon. Gotta love the look they give you when they find out you want it for your car.
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looks good. I went thru 200 sq. ft. of fatmat and honestly had a few places I could have used more, lol
wow. i have to say. you my freind may have gotten ripped on your 100 sq ft. i bought a 100 sq ft of Edead V1 and i did 2 layers on each door, the WHOLE trunk and also the back deck where the back speakersare. and underneath the back seat with it. i would say another 100 sq ft from me would do the floor and the roof.
Nonetheless. loooks great. and im glad you like it. i know i do. lol. way quieter ride.
Wojo wrote:wow. i have to say. you my freind may have gotten ripped on your 100 sq ft. i bought a 100 sq ft of Edead V1 and i did 2 layers on each door, the WHOLE trunk and also the back deck where the back speakersare. and underneath the back seat with it.
Well, that actually sounds about right. The floor is a significant area, and that about equates to your extra layer on the doors and doing the rear deck by my reckoning. My trunk did get a complete layer, including the lid.
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i was well over 350 sq. ft. to get mine where i like it, not to mention foam and spray on absorber etc. the asphalt smell will go away in a month or so. and as long as you did a good job installing it, you shouldn't have any real problems of the stuff not sticking. i tend to use a heat gun when i apply mine to make sure its good and sticky. and helps when your tyring to conform around certain areas. i'd buy more of that stuff before i bought peal and seal. the smell of that stuff lasts longer, and the glue isn't nearly as strong as what you have.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sndsgood/ https://www.facebook.com/#!/Square1Photography
sndsgood wrote:i was well over 350 sq. ft. to get mine where i like it, not to mention foam and spray on absorber etc. the asphalt smell will go away in a month or so. and as long as you did a good job installing it, you shouldn't have any real problems of the stuff not sticking. i tend to use a heat gun when i apply mine to make sure its good and sticky. and helps when your tyring to conform around certain areas. i'd buy more of that stuff before i bought peal and seal. the smell of that stuff lasts longer, and the glue isn't nearly as strong as what you have.
Also See: Hair-dryer with a high heat setting, for those of us who dont ahve a heat gun/are cheap and dont mind burning up our mom/ sister/ neice investment, lol.
Scorpio1 bishes... wrote:sndsgood wrote:i was well over 350 sq. ft. to get mine where i like it, not to mention foam and spray on absorber etc. the asphalt smell will go away in a month or so. and as long as you did a good job installing it, you shouldn't have any real problems of the stuff not sticking. i tend to use a heat gun when i apply mine to make sure its good and sticky. and helps when your tyring to conform around certain areas. i'd buy more of that stuff before i bought peal and seal. the smell of that stuff lasts longer, and the glue isn't nearly as strong as what you have.
Also See: Hair-dryer with a high heat setting, for those of us who dont ahve a heat gun/are cheap and dont mind burning up our mom/ sister/ neice investment, lol.
To be honest, I didn't apply any heat during my install and I doubt it will be a problem. It was an irritatingly hot couple of days, and as long as asphalt will adhere through drops of fallen sweat, I think It'll be fine. After a count of three, there was no chance of removal. A couple of discussions I've read even went so far as to suggestion that heat-gun application might have been a factor in the failure of some cheap asphalt-based mats.
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So my local building center quoted me $175 for 100sf of "Peel & Seal" type product, which they claimed they had to source from Quebec thus requiring a good amount of freight cost. I politely declined. After all, if I'm paying that kind of money, I can get stuff that's actually sold for the purpose. Case in point:
Never one to stop being impulsive when shopping online, I decided instead to drop almost $400 on "B-Quiet" products from their website instead. It might sound like I ripped myself off in the end, but this gives me the following in addition to the 100sf of Fatmat RattleTrap I already installed:
- 150 sf of B-Quiet Extreme (45 mil asphalt-based)
- 13.5 sf of B-Quiet HLiner (1/2" Foam Hood Liner)
- 50 sf of B-Quiet Ultimate (60 mil butyl-based)
I hope to use the hood liner, and some of the Ultimate in the engine bay (with its better heat tolerance) to better deal with engine noise, which was the main thing that remained after the first layer of Fatmat. The 200 sf of material should let me get the roof, side panels, and doors done properly, and have plenty to spare for layering up key areas.
It's just a shame I won't have it in time for the long weekend.
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Project complete. I'll probably grab some pictures from my camera this evening. Things that I've learned:
- I've used both B-Quiet and Fatmat products, and of these two "cheap" brands B-Quiet seems easier to work with and more durable.
- The thinner material choices (~30-45 mil) are far easier to work with than thicker choices (~ 60-75 mil). Given the differences in performance and price, I'd actually recommend multiple thin layers over using thicker material. The thicker materials also seem to "ooze" out the edges more, and be just a general pain to cut and form.
- 300 square feet of material really does work 3 times better than 100 square feet. I thought I'd see diminishing returns, but I was wrong. It's freaking sweet how quiet this car is now.
- The roof of our cars is a high-priority area for sound deadening. Even GM knew this, and put a pitiful couple of half-assed strips of rubber-foil deadener up there. I now have far more, and it makes a huge difference.
- Don't forget to shove some inside the side body panels of the coupe (via the rubber plug they hid behind the interior panels).
- It is possible to lay the deadener so thick under the seats to make it a pain to bolt them down again.
- A completely quiet interior can be spoiled by a cheap rattling glove box door.
- A hood liner sticks better to metal than grease.
- Xacto knifes can leave a nasty mark on a window.
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Geeky wrote:Project complete. I'll probably grab some pictures from my camera this evening. Things that I've learned:
- I've used both B-Quiet and Fatmat products, and of these two "cheap" brands B-Quiet seems easier to work with and more durable.
- The thinner material choices (~30-45 mil) are far easier to work with than thicker choices (~ 60-75 mil). Given the differences in performance and price, I'd actually recommend multiple thin layers over using thicker material. The thicker materials also seem to "ooze" out the edges more, and be just a general pain to cut and form.
- 300 square feet of material really does work 3 times better than 100 square feet. I thought I'd see diminishing returns, but I was wrong. It's freaking sweet how quiet this car is now.
- The roof of our cars is a high-priority area for sound deadening. Even GM knew this, and put a pitiful couple of half-assed strips of rubber-foil deadener up there. I now have far more, and it makes a huge difference.
- Don't forget to shove some inside the side body panels of the coupe (via the rubber plug they hid behind the interior panels).
- It is possible to lay the deadener so thick under the seats to make it a pain to bolt them down again.
- A completely quiet interior can be spoiled by a cheap rattling glove box door.
- A hood liner sticks better to metal than grease.
- Xacto knifes can leave a nasty mark on a window.
Nice man
JGM T-SHIRTS!!!!
In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Alexis: Dustin, you're ghey, lol. I am better. I have tits, and tits rule all.
your install looks very thorough. Hopefully i'll be doing the same with some raamat in the near future. I'm definitly going to take advantage of your advice. lol
btw... all of your posts are funny as hell.
so 300 SQ FT should take car of the whole thing should it... good to know my whole car rattles like nuts from my stereo
www.driftnamiperformance.com
A few of things I forgot to mention:
- I never did put any of the sound deadener in the engine bay. I bought an insulative hood liner from b-quiet and installed that, but couldn't be bothered to try and clean and stick anything to the firewall given the tight quarters. This may be an option for someone with their engine pulled, and who has more faith that their product wouldn't melt into a gooey mess. If there's one thing you can still hear in my car, it's the engine, so this may be worthwhile.
- To use 300 square feet (and I actually didn't use much of the final roll, so more like 270 square feet), I had to layer up many areas that I thought were key. Those were A) the floor area in front of the seats and up under the dash. B) the roof and C) the inner metal structure of the door. There was a spot on the door, directly opposite where the window crank and hardware were, that I layered about 8 pieces deep to try and add weight and prevent vibration and flex. I could have easily used more if I hand put a higher priority on my stereo and put extra layers in my trunk, which remains just the one original layer deep.
- About 9/10s of the "noise" I was getting from my doors was simply the cheap door handle / locking linkages (the long metal rods on plastic clips) rattling around inside. I was able to resolve this by sandwiching several small pieces of deadener between the rods and the inside panel.
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!!!WHAT!!! Are these Good Brands you speak off??$500
If I'm not mistaken HUSH-MAT-B-QUIET-SECOND SKIN ARE RIGHT UP THERE WITH THE !!!HOUSE HOLD BRAND OF DYNAMAT AND IN SOME CASES OUT DOES IT WITH THERE MIL RATINGS AND PRICE.
So what are these Higher End Brands you talk about
BTW Good work
Hush-mat is Damn nice to work with you don't need to prep any panels just stick and rool
ive got about a little over 350 sq ft in mine and its quite quiet, for things like the rattling locking linkages and stuff ive found simple foam from a craft store to be allot cheaper, easier and just as good to keep things quiet, another tip is thin foam laid on the back side of all those cheap plastic panels helps keep the vibrations down as well.
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1cavy wrote:!!!WHAT!!! Are these Good Brands you speak off??$500
If I'm not mistaken HUSH-MAT-B-QUIET-SECOND SKIN ARE RIGHT UP THERE WITH THE !!!HOUSE HOLD BRAND OF DYNAMAT AND IN SOME CASES OUT DOES IT WITH THERE MIL RATINGS AND PRICE.
So what are these Higher End Brands you talk about
BTW Good work
Hush-mat is Damn nice to work with you don't need to prep any panels just stick and rool
I didn't do much prep work either, and no heat. Just a quick swab with some Methanol ("wood alcohol", sold at paint thinner or fuel additive). As far as calling them "cheap brands", I was going on price and material construction. Both Fatmat and B-Quite "extreme" are low-cost and asphalt-based, which tends to mean they melt more easily. The B-Quiet "ultimate" contains more of a butyl blend, which is supposed to help with heat tolerance. I used some of the Ultimate as well, and it seemed just as "oozy" if not more during installation, but the
Sound Deadener Showdown was able to positively test the improvement in high temperatures. There are other choices that would hold up even better yet. I do agree that the premium on something like Dynamat is hard to justify, especially if you're doing the whole car.
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sndsgood wrote:ive got about a little over 350 sq ft in mine and its quite quiet, for things like the rattling locking linkages and stuff ive found simple foam from a craft store to be allot cheaper, easier and just as good to keep things quiet, another tip is thin foam laid on the back side of all those cheap plastic panels helps keep the vibrations down as well.
No doubt, I wouldn't buy a roll of asphalt just to kill that one noise. I had more than I needed, which made it a natural choice. I also found that the gap was big enough that a chunk of foam wanted to work it's way loose after a few movements of the linkage, so I decided to build it up with the sound mat instead. I've had pretty good luck with the plastic panels staying put, though the clips at the top by the window molding strip are getting weak and like to pop out.
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RANDOM PICTURES, seeing as this is a picture forum.
150 square feet of B-Quiet material, courtesy of UPS delivery.
Working on getting my door properly cocooned.
The original floor mat cleans up pretty well after a hosing down, steel brushing, overnight air drying, and a can and a half of Duplicolor Vinyl and Fabric.
New hood liner, cut roughly to shape. I went around the edges afterward with a construction adhesive.
Door handles get sanded with increasingly fine grit sandpaper until they shine on their own, wipe down with alcohol, primer, resanded, Duplicolor paint, and clear coat. Notice the stupidly small newspaper masked area. Let's just say it's a good thing that the alcohol also makes short work of overspray.
The Gods were on my side on Saturday evening, as this thunderhead formed in the waning evening light.
It's little bloody wonder that the roof on our cars sounds like a trashcan when you beat on it. This is GM's pathetic factory attempt to do this job for me. EPIC FAIL.
More candid cloud pictures, now with pink-o-vision.
The Rock-em Sock-em Robot is beating the snot out of a mermaid again. Maybe I'll leave this out when I'm talking to the psychiatrist.
Just about time to try and throw that interior back in. Despite what you might think, that stupid dome light bulb does get hot enough to burn the back of your neck when it slides off the roof. I would know.
One last pic of the damn rain clouds that kept my paint from drying all weekend.
That's a rap. I suppose I could have taken a shot of the finished interior, but I'll save the suspense: It's mostly black. Not terribly exciting, but clean.
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