HPT Question - Tuning Forum
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Okay, does the HPTuners come with some sort of reflash for the PCM or not? When I get the S/C I really do not want GM to do a reflash on my car. That would really piss me off.
GIT 'ER DONE!
You need the gm reflash to get the correct 2.5 bar map and setup. The only problem with the gm reflash for the eco is that HPT does not work with the reflash as of now. You will have to HPT it and fake a 2 bar map.
Yeah, okay, wrote that last night, yes I was tired. I know that HPTuners is not a reflash. This is the question that I have: Does it come with a base set up, and then go from there?
DCStang - There is no way in Hell that I will allow GM to put the reflash on my car. A snowball would have a better chance in hell.
GIT 'ER DONE!
I think he's asking if anyone has come up with a tune to emulate the GM reflash for the S/C.
I know the HPT doesn't work with the Ecotec reflashed ECU, but can it at least read the values? Has someone recreated it so HPT users can use that to start with?
^^ i don't think so weasel
keith from hp tuners was having problems reading those ecus... basically commenting that they're 'crippled' versions of stock ecus. he was also mentioning how crazy gm was for endorsing such a thing.. something about check values being turned off and what not.. I don't hack ecus so I'm not sure on the particulars or technical wordage, but I know that HPT cannot be used with those ecus at all.
since nobody can read a 'GM reflashed' ecu, they can't edit it either.
I'd imagine there is someone running around with a s/c and just HPT reflash but i haven't seen anything from them yet on the HPT forum
Exactly what Wild Weasel was saying. Do they have a program with in it to start with. But I am understanding no. Because I do not want to screw anything up on the install of the GM S/C, so I am going to have GM install it, but I will absolutely refuse to have the GM reflash done. Totally F them. To start with I am looking for a base setting to start with to load into the ecu so that nothing gets screwed up when I leave with the car. I will be watching over them so that they do not reflash my ecu at all.
GIT 'ER DONE!
Because I will not be able to do what I want to the ecu. I really do not think that GM would give you the full advantage of the performance upgrade, as in HPTuners you can get the full advantage of the upgrade.
GIT 'ER DONE!
why not get the reflash on ur ecu, but buy a spare ecu to use HPT with?
you can copy your ecu programming before hand, then put it on the spare you buy
then you'll have one ecu with the GM reflash
and another thats still your car stock, and with that one you can use HPT to screw around with.
Well PJ, that one I certainly did not think of, but a damn good idea. I am going to have to get another ecu.
GIT 'ER DONE!
Shifted wrote:Why are you so against the GM flash?
Well if he gets the GM flash, he can't use the HPT, right? Isn't that a pretty strong argument against the GM flash?
How much would he pay for another ECU to tune with? How difficult is it to swap back and forth between two different ones?
The price varies. I have found them on ebay for as low as $63, I would imagine from the bone yard it would be pretty close in price. Other than that could go through a dealer and that would be rather expensive. But I would still rather not get the GM reflash so I can tune the ecu to my likeing, not what GM wants me to have. Also, since the GM reflash locks up your ECU and HPTuners would be totally usless at that point, there would be absolutely no point to getting HPTuners at that point. So this is what I plan on doing, before the S/C gets installed, get the HPTuners, get a tune for the S/C, bring it all with me, have the S/C installed, not let them give me the reflash and then push the car out to their parking lot and upload the programing from HPTuners.
GIT 'ER DONE!
There are no tunes out there for the S/C on the eco yet, its a DIY thing. The best idea is to let GM do your tune, pick up a spare, and tune that. That way you don't blow it up on the drive home and you have the drivability of your car, and can tune the spare when you pull the old one out. You can always sell the S/C'd ECU later for a profit, there are guys who are willing to buy them.
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weasel wrote:Well if he gets the GM flash, he can't use the HPT, right? Isn't that a pretty strong argument against the GM flash?
How much would he pay for another ECU to tune with? How difficult is it to swap back and forth between two different ones?
anywhere from $50 - $120
it'd be very simple to swap the ecus... simply unplug one, and plug in the other one.
Normally pass lock relearn procedure would have to be gone thru, but HPT lets you disable Vehicle Anti Theft System or VATS. this allows you to reflash your ecu (or vcm as they call it) multiple times and not have to spend 15 minutes doing a PL2 relearn everytime.
Therefore, you could unplug one ecu, and plug in another and off you go. Slam, Bam, thank you ma'am.
however, the s/c reflashed ecu MAY have VATS enabled, and since HPT won't read or write to it.. you could be stuck having to do a PL2 relearn everytime you plug in the GM s/c vcm... i could be wrong but I think thats the case. The HPT ecu would plug right in and off you go no problems or questions.
Wild Weasel wrote:Shifted wrote:Why are you so against the GM flash?
Well if he gets the GM flash, he can't use the HPT, right? Isn't that a pretty strong argument against the GM flash?
Not to try and sound insulting, but based on his questions I would think we have a pretty strong argument against him using HP for this at all.
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PROTOMEC, that is your opinon. Sorry that I do not want the GM reflash. GM will give you the gains that they want you to have, I want the full gains that the S/C can offer, not to mention what other power gains that GM doesn't want us to have. So based on that, which you obviously overlooked, I have a damn strong argument against the GM reflash and just use HPTuners instead. Furthermore, why don't you just go and get the GM reflash and not use HPTuners? Let me guess, you want the gains from you setup that is there to be haved, not what GM wants you to have. So why don't you go and get the reflash? Why not try this, offer advice or something like that instead of your comments, especially when you do not know what I am trying to do with this car.
GIT 'ER DONE!
05cav LS Sedan wrote: Furthermore, why don't you just go and get the GM reflash and not use HPTuners? Let me guess, you want the gains from you setup that is there to be haved, not what GM wants you to have. So why don't you go and get the reflash? Why not try this, offer advice or something like that instead of your comments, especially when you do not know what I am trying to do with this car.
Ummm, I have a 95 cav and an 03 Ion and neither has a GM reflash available, so....
The point I tried to make is that you have no clue what HP does or can/can't do. You lack any tuning experience in the vain of this product. Your comment that you want "the gains GM does not want us to have" are childish and also show a lack of experience.
The experience and knowledge level you'll need to accomplish anything with HP is higher than your comments seem to indicate you have. Add to that, the level of experience it would take to convert a stock program to the equivalent of the GM SC program will take a much, much higher level of understanding yet.
Your "trying to do" exactly what tons of other orgites have been claiming for the past 6 yrs I've been watching this, your going to try to run a minimum 25psi and daily drive 600+hp.
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I agree with you Promotec... it's clear there isn't enough knowledge within this individual to truly get the car to come alive as he'd like it to.
I WILL however disagree with your last statement.
By the end of this season one of the "orgites" will hit a new HP goal, but the car will be daily driven on low boost. I'm no fool, I like traction.
-Chris-
-Sweetness-
-Turbocharged-
Slowly but surely may some day win this race...
Here is lack of experience for you, go and build a 350 into a 600+ hp car. Try that, childish, how about you, no advice, only your own comments. Not to mention, like what I said, you do not know what my intensions are for this car. 25psi and 600hp, no. I want to tune the VCM the way I WANT IT, NOT THE WAY GM WANTS IT. THAT IS MY WHOLE ENTIRE POINT. So next time you want to talk sh*&, at least have a f'ing clue to what someone is talking about. Besides there was only a couple people had any advice, the one that really stuck out and gave me what idea that I am going to go with is Shifted. Wild Weasel, DaFlyinSkwirl (PJ), and Shifted, thanks, the advice I got from the 3 of you, that is what I am going to do. Get a spare ECU and tune that to my liking, the stock ECU let the reflash happen to that. Protomec, stay out of the threads that I make, I want to hear nothing from you.
GIT 'ER DONE!
protomec, SweetnessGT , this is only for tht 2 of you. First - I have never done anything with HPTuner, so I asked if it came with a base or not, since I have not done anything with this program before, thought that it was a good question to ask in here, also that may answer something to SweetnessGT. Secondly - Protomec, you have no clue to what I know and what I do not know. I know there are many varibles to go into tunning your VCM, I know what it can and can not do. Also, now I know that it does NOT come with a base program to through into the VCM and go from there, you set everything from square 1 to 999. Lastly, Protomec, your in absolutely no position to make any kind of comment on anyone's intelligence level. Furthermore, why would GM lock the ECU? Oh wait, that is right, they do not want anyone playing with the setup that they give you which is not going to give you the optimum performance that the S/C is able to obtain. So Protomec, you are not me s odo ner ever say you know what I am trying to do, that makes you an idoit. When you make assumptions you immediately make an a$$ out of yourself.
GIT 'ER DONE!
05cav LS Sedan wrote: Secondly - Protomec, you have no clue to what I know and what I do not know. I know there are many varibles to go into tunning your VCM, I know what it can and can not do. Also, now I know that it does NOT come with a base program to through into the VCM and go from there, you set everything from square 1 to 999.
Your presenting many clues for us to follow, and its really not looking to good for you.
If you could even simply read the posts in this thread you would understand that HP starts out with your own base program. You don't start at square one at all.
05cav LS Sedan wrote:Lastly, Protomec, your in absolutely no position to make any kind of comment on anyone's intelligence level.
Oh, I do believe I am.
05cav LS Sedan wrote:Furthermore, why would GM lock the ECU? Oh wait, that is right, they do not want anyone playing with the setup that they give you which is not going to give you the optimum performance that the S/C is able to obtain.
GM had ZERO concern about HP tuners. HP didn't even exist for our cars till after the SC Kit came out. The real reason its "locked" is more likely someone took the easy way out and simply skipped entering information when generating the calibration. We that step ourselves all the time here when we are doing internal test runs. We even once released one final production release that way by accident ourselves... its easy to have happen.
It has absolutely nothing to do with what anyone might want to change.
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let me put this so that a child can understand. Origianally asking if that HPTuner came with a base program to load into your ECU then reprogram the ECU to your preference (meaning the way you would like it). That was answered long before you put your 2 cents in, which I beleive is all you capable of giving. The last thing that I will explain to you is this, square 1 means the stock programing. But seeing how your so smart you should have known this. Which is exactly where the following is going:
05cav LS Sedan wrote:
Lastly, Protomec, your in absolutely no position to make any kind of comment on anyone's intelligence level.
Protomec:
Oh, I do believe I am.
You obviously do not get anything. Your arrogance almost makes me feel sorry for you, but I do feel sorry for your family that have to deal with your arrogance daily. Besides there is no reason you should come on here acting like an a$$hole.
GIT 'ER DONE!
I'm in a kind of similar situation to this, only I was one of the few unlucky ones to have already gotten the reflash for my eco before i got hptuners...before we found out it wasn't going to work. So now, I've got the reflash on my pcm and can't use hptuners (except for scanning purposes) with it. But I thought of the second pcm idea, and am working on that now, so hopefully I can answer some of your questions you've ran into...and hopefully eventually we can work together on this. The price of a second pcm is relatively cheap if you find the right place. I got mine for $50. It's extremely easy to swap pcm's in and out, no tools required even. As far as vats, you only need to disable it on the second pcm, and i believe only once. You can swap back in the reflashed one without that problem...
However..I noticed after I swapped back in my reflashed pcm it ran a little slower 0-60...by about 2 or 3 tenths of a second, not a lot, but still noticable. Over a few days, I *think* it may be back to normal, so me and shifted's best guess is that the fuel trims got reset.
As far as the actual retuning of the second pcm...i'm still in the early stages..the doing my homework stages. Make sure you read up on faking a 2 bar tune...only it will be 2.5 bar in our case. Here's my idea for a lot of the rest...compare files between a stock 2.4 file and a s/c tune (or reflashed) file, and use those differences (probably in percentages would be best) to update the stock eco tune. I believe their is a s/c tune for the 2.4 on www.horist.com/hptuner and a reflash (note: correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe hptuners works with the 2.4 s/c reflash). So anyways...use those differences to update the stock eco pcm and that should get you to a relatively good point.
However..there is a problem with the VE tables...for the s/c reflash files it goes off of the map readings...whereas stock it goes off of tps...so since you can't (as far as i know) change what it goes off of, you're going to have to tune VE based off of tps instead of map. This may be solved by looking at the s/c tune (non reflash file) for comparison...if not, just slowly tune greater and greater rpms til you fill in the table by test and tune, test and tune.
Well that's all I can think of for now, just make sure to do a lot of reading up on here and on the hptuners forum and you'll be ok. I'll hopefully have some more stuff done as well and be able to help. If there's anyone else working on a similar situation, please comment so we can get more people on this problem. Good luck.
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