http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050314/wl_afp/chinanpctaiwan_050314173926&e=5
This could get messy. I know that Taiwan has been basically independent for about 50 years now and that threats are continually going back and forth. But this bill seems to raise the stakes higher than ever. The official statement from the White House is this: "It does not serve the purpose of peace and stability in the Taiwan Strait," spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters.
At the same time, he warned that Washington "does not support Taiwan independence."
While I'm by no means encouraging a war with China I think we should take a harder line on China and the abuse of Human Rights, freedoms of speech, religion, expression being repressed etc. By supporting Taiwan I think we would be taking a stand for what's right instead of siding with the juggernaut of the People's Republic. The people of Taiwan made their choice 50 yrs ago just like the Iraquis did a few months ago. Why aren't we standing with them as well? yes yes i know money but I just wish there was more to it than that. thoughts?
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
You're right in that Taiwan would be crushed, and the US has always leaned towards the Taiwan side but never officialy (foreign policy) made a stand on the issue (if I'm wrong here correct me plz) This latest statement
Quote:
At the same time, he warned that Washington "does not support Taiwan independence."
seems to say that, "well if they invade you're screwed" dang i'll finish later have to chase some 4-wheelers off my land &^%$*&^%
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
The US wouldn't have the ability to halt a full-scale invasion of Taiwan if China decided to push it. Look at it like this: The US is pretty much tied down to Iraq for the next 10 years or so, barring UN support. Given that, China has the ability to mobilise a naval/arial assault that would more or less flatten the Island, but that would be counter-productive, so, they'd either blockade the Island or push a pro-chinese agenda.
Either way, the US would be foolish to invade because a: It's a lot longer away from friendly turf than was Iraq, and b: if the US moved on Taiwan, North Korea would move on South Korea and then possibly China on Japan.
It's a bloody powder keg over there.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
yes, the U.S. would be foolish to start a war with china. I agree with you guys on that but I really really doubt the U.S. would do that anyways. U.S. stands by china and helps them with arms etc but Taiwan is really a part of china and the U.S. knows china isnt Iraq or some other country with a not so strong military and would never invade it. Especially with us in Afghan and Iraq.
Also, we are dependent on the chinese economy. we will not go to war with them. besides being military suicide, it would break our already weak economy. not to mention we are stuck in Iraq.
What's cooler..than being cool?
If we would, it would bring th fall of the U.S. faster than i though could happen...
ahh well, life goes on.
Goodbye Callisto & Skaši, Hello Ishara:
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The only thing every single person from every single walk of life on earth can truly say
they have in common is that their country is run by a bunch of fargin iceholes.
Rollin:
I think the only way the US sends China Arms is by <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2001/010404-aries2.htm">crippled spy-aircraft</a>.
China's been manufacturing their own versions of Warsaw Pact arms and craft for the last 50 years since the idealogical split with the USSR. Mostly the same designs used under license... Whatever that means between Communist economies.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
The US could do nothing to stop an invasion of Taiwan no matter what... so why would it even bother? Being in good relations with China is essential for the US economy and siding with Taiwan would make no sense at all... on the other hand China knows this and would only gain by taking the island.
Militarily, the island is an easy hop for the Chinese Army and once that thing gets ashore I'd give Yaiwan a couple weeks if they even decide to fight at all... I'm sure the only force that would have success is the Air Force (aren't they equipped with US-made fighters?) but numbers will surely tell in the end. Even with US aid, by the time the US mobilized anything significant in the area the war would be stratigically over anyway... the US could not beat China halfway around the world... although I believe a non-nuclear conflict between China and the US would be a US victory if the US was on the defensive.
I'm wondering about China's amphibious capablities, I know they've got troops and armour out the wazoo but their navy is pretty anemic. You have to have boats to get all your forces across the strait.
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
They're within para-drop distance, and they have decent air power.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
GAM (The Canadian One) wrote:Rollin:
I think the only way the US sends China Arms is by <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2001/010404-aries2.htm">crippled spy-aircraft</a>.
China's been manufacturing their own versions of Warsaw Pact arms and craft for the last 50 years since the idealogical split with the USSR. Mostly the same designs used under license... Whatever that means between Communist economies.
Lol my mistake, I meant to say the U.S. stands by Taiwan and helps them with arms etc.....
I think its pretty cool that the USA's 40 yr old desgin turboprop got a kill against a Chinese fighter. Seriously, I read the pilot's book about that mission, pretty interesting, as they were descending to land they threw all the documents, computers and gear into the sea, then took an axe to stuff that was bolted down so the Chinese couldn't get that information
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
Rollin: I figured as much
Fudd: The problem is that the aircrew didn't have a whole helluva lot of time to do the destruct procedures. The Chinese (if they're at all as efficient as the Soviets were with the remnants of Gary Powers' U2 hulk) would have picked over everything relatively quickly in that 11 day span.
That would have been all they needed to get somewhat acurate ideas of the circuit boards and microprocessors onboard. Those don't need to be 100% intact to figure out. The fact that everything was returned only spells out that they found whatever they wanted and extracted all the information (ie design specs) they wanted and sent it on its merry way.
Hell, they've been stealing US atomic reactor, hydrogen weaponry, and ICBM guidance information for the last 30 years, why not all the remote sensing/sigs materials that were (more or less) dropped in their laps?
BTW, I forget the exact circumstances, but wasn't the Chinese fighter doing an intediction mission to basically shoo away the US plane?
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Yeah, we fly our electronics intelligence planes over international waters and listen in on their radios, obviously the Chinese know this and would send the fighters to harass the planes. The Chinese pilots were agressive and not well trained or disciplined, they would try to fly a few feet off the wing of our spy aircraft at speeds way to slow for their jet fighters (nutshell: at slow speeds aircraft's controls don't respond well) One of them got too close and got chopped in half by the prop, severly damaging the US plane as well, it even ripped of the huge radome under the nose. I'm sure the Chinese gained some technology from the smashed computers but it was basically all just high-gain radio equipment. I think the book is called "Born to Fly" an interesting read, the guy kinda has the attitude, "I'm the best pilot ever" but still an interesting story.
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
Fudd: Most pilots that I know that are Military/Ex-mil have that attitude
Either way, if there was any radio encryption equipment aboard, they'd grab it without a doubt. I knew the Chinese pilot forgot about that Stall light on the dash.. maybe he thought it was cyrillic for "Vodka time!"
Either way, I think that's the first time since WWII that a prop-driven aircraft took out a jet propelled aircraft in flight.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
Yeah you do have have that attitude to fly
(I'm a pilot, not military though) I just hate hearing somebody else saying it about themselves cuz I'm the best pilot in the world not him lol jk. I dunno if they had encryption stuff on that plane or not, that would be interesting to find out though i doubt we ever will.
<img src="http://www.geocities.com/fudd_22602/elmer-shoot.gif"> Old school Js rock
Fudd:
I'm not a pilot, but I know I'm the best
Aww who am I kiddin... I'm just a moisture farming rocket jockey in white jammies who doesn't know his father.
As far as the encryption stuff, I'd suspect they did have it, so unless they had separate data/voice radio sets, I think they'd be careful what got the boot.
Transeat In Exemplum: Let this stand as the example.
