ok, so I have a friend of mine who likes what I do to cars. Enough with that... I'm a dodge guy, I know dodges inside and out... and somehow I ended up with his 2001 sunfire in my garage 3 months ago.
So he wanted me to take his 2.4 out of the sunfire and put the 2.2 eco from his 2003 cavalier into it. So first task, putting a phantom LSD into his transmission which I am fully capable of doing and after it was all said and done I could run it through the gears and put a wrench on the input shaft and turn it easily... that was about a year ago... he store the motor and transmission outside over a wisconsin winter with no fluid in the freshly rebuilt tranny.
I didnt know about this, So after I got the 2.4 out we went over to his house to pick up the motor and trans which he assurred me would drop right in. so we get it back and I find out that the fuel system, EVAP, heater hoses, radiator, and radiator hoses are completly different and he doesnt have the parts for it.
Project stops
several weeks go by and he now has all the parts... so we go back where we left off... then I find out that the flywheel is different.
Project stops
a week goes by, we have the flywheel now, I bolt and torque everything together and get the motor and trans in the car to find some minor issues. the heat wrap on the heater lines maybe in the wrong spot as it is no where near the part that runs 1/2 and inch from the header, as well as the fuel lines which run 1 inch from the header, the throttle cables are different and the A/C hasnt a chance of bolting up. So then comes me wiring the car, he supplied me with the PCM and the harness from his old car which I found out that the Auto wiring harness doesnt mate with a manual tansmission AT ALL.
So then I decide to go ahead and make the car a rolling chassis so I can at least have my garage back, so in go the CVs... they wont seat in the transmission... is this the Phantom grips fault or are the CV shafts different? and after I kinda had it together the car didnt move, the transmission seems to be... tight. anyway to save a tranny thats been sitting dry under 3 feet of snow for a winter?
So as I sit right now:
-need a new wiring harness (is there anyway to just spice in the speed sensor and the back up sensor plugs to the auto harness?)
-throttle cable is different....
-concerent about melting the fuel lines and the heater lines.
-concerned about the paper weight I may have installed as a tranny
-is there anything I may be missing to compete this project, i'm loosing trust in his research.
Thank you all for your time.
if you looked up the eco swap guide in the 3rd gen forum, you wouldn't have had any issues with the swap. everything you've run into was covered.
sorry to see you're having trouble. look before you leap!
all that time effort and work and money for a 10 whp loss (probably something else he didn't research)... what was wrong with the 2.4?
EDIT: i have never heard anyone say anything good about the phantom grip LSD... most ppl here run the team green insert, or the real deal quaife. The 2000 - 2002 2.4 manual transmission is identical to the Eco manual transmission except for the bell housing
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Monday, November 21, 2011 4:14 PM
link to this swap would be great. he talked to someone who had done this before and was told that this would drop right in. obviously was missinformed.
but if someone could link me to this that would be AWESOME!
Mystic02VA (GME Chat) wrote:all that time effort and work and money for a 10 whp loss (probably something else he didn't research)... what was wrong with the 2.4?
EDIT: i have never heard anyone say anything good about the phantom grip LSD... most ppl here run the team green insert, or the real deal quaife. The 2000 - 2002 2.4 manual transmission is identical to the Eco manual transmission except for the bell housing
10 WHP Loss?
I have never dynod less then a 2.4 with similiar mods.
stock eco vs stock ld9... the only mod i seem referenced is an LSD... being the transmissions are the same... both would get the same benefits of the LSD...
my point was, the owner of the car, had to buy all those parts, and spend all that money, and waste all of that time... to get a motor that is very comparable to what he had... and even starts out with 10 less horsepower... in my opinion its not worth swapping ld9 to eco or eco to ld9... you'll never get your money or time's worth from the swap...
I'm still waiting to hear what was wrong with the LD9... i'm still betting it would have been cheaper and easier to fix it...
the eco is cammed with a pacesetter, larger intake, injectors, and chipped to within an inch of its life
hmm... they don't make chips for our engine's PCMs... o.O
Is it possible it was tuned with HPT?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 22, 2011 8:03 PM
yea, he has an ECU flash.
So after reading the swap post someone mentioned you "might" be able to use the auto harness but never said yes or no to that point.
Problem with the 2.4 is that it has 194,000 miles on it and even without valve tick wasn't worth doing anything to. The Eco that is going is was bought from Darkstars with 5k on it. I bought JBP stage 2 cams, ss valves, and GM Racing valve springs in and had the motor swapped into my old car. Prioe toneeding a new motor I had purchased HPT Pro, but never had to tune it. A month later it was totalled and I bought the 00 GT I have currently. Prior to totalling the car I bought the LE5 Intake Manifold and a set of Ford Green Top Injectors. The money I had already stuck into the engine warrented a swap.
I will go reread the swap post to see if I missed something, which is what PJ implied.
Mystic02VA (GME Chat) wrote:stock eco vs stock ld9... the only mod i seem referenced is an LSD... being the transmissions are the same... both would get the same benefits of the LSD...
my point was, the owner of the car, had to buy all those parts, and spend all that money, and waste all of that time... to get a motor that is very comparable to what he had... and even starts out with 10 less horsepower... in my opinion its not worth swapping ld9 to eco or eco to ld9... you'll never get your money or time's worth from the swap...
I'm still waiting to hear what was wrong with the LD9... i'm still betting it would have been cheaper and easier to fix it...
you're going off gm ratings, car to car it was always within 1 or 2 hp dyno to dyno.
OP: you can use an auto harness but you will have to bridge 2 wires on the harness so the parking switch is off so it will start, secondly you will always see an ebrake light on and lose use of your rear backup lights
Phillip Gruver wrote:Mystic02VA (GME Chat) wrote:stock eco vs stock ld9... the only mod i seem referenced is an LSD... being the transmissions are the same... both would get the same benefits of the LSD...
my point was, the owner of the car, had to buy all those parts, and spend all that money, and waste all of that time... to get a motor that is very comparable to what he had... and even starts out with 10 less horsepower... in my opinion its not worth swapping ld9 to eco or eco to ld9... you'll never get your money or time's worth from the swap...
I'm still waiting to hear what was wrong with the LD9... i'm still betting it would have been cheaper and easier to fix it...
you're going off gm ratings, car to car it was always within 1 or 2 hp dyno to dyno.
OP: you can use an auto harness but you will have to bridge 2 wires on the harness so the parking switch is off so it will start, secondly you will always see an ebrake light on and lose use of your rear backup lights
My point still stands ... stock vs stock, its not worth swapping from one to the other...
however... i see the circumstances in this case.
OP: also if your PCM was originally used in an Auto, you can go back in with HPT and clear all the automatic codes and turn the "shift light" feature back on.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Tuesday, November 22, 2011 7:41 PM
It was set to ignore all codes when it was in the old car, but they will be reset and turned off as needed. It would be nice to know when I have a problem. The PCM will also be re-flashed to a manual version even if I don't get to keep my reverse lights. The codes that were turned off were caused by the JBP cams.
Things I've learned from reading the how-to over:
- Most of the plugs are color coded, and only plug into their mate which makes mis-wiring very difficult.
- Reinstall the driveshafts.. putting them into the differential is usually easiest. You should hear them or feel them snap into place. Tap lightly on the inner CV joint until they're just about flush with the differential.
- Check your throttle linkage, I noticed with my 2200 swap that pushing my gas pedal down all the way did not open the throttle all the way. A zip tie behind the cable on the pedal acting as a spacer is a temporary fix, but upgrading to the ecotec throttle cable during the swap is ideal.
- Fill the trans up with fluid as well, and fill the cooling system. If you have a driveshaft not in place, you'll see the trans fluid leak out when the engine starts or as you pour it in.
Just in case TheDodgeGuy wants to look at the post PJ made it's right
here.
Someone should have brought it to me
Good luck with the swap though! Feel free to drop the LD9 off with me, I'll dispose of it for you
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What do you mean its not worth swapping? You loose 50-100 pounds from the car, cast iron is for boat anchors (and making over 1200 rwhp).
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Thedodgeguy wrote:I didnt know about this, So after I got the 2.4 out we went over to his house to pick up the motor and trans which he assurred me would drop right in. so we get it back and I find out that the fuel system, EVAP, heater hoses, radiator, and radiator hoses are completly different and he doesnt have the parts for it. .
First mistake.... listening to someone that you knew ahead of time didn't know what they were talking about.
i find it amusing that SHOoff has nothing better to do but follow me around & be an unhelpful dick in even cross-forum. - Jon Mick
Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:What do you mean its not worth swapping? You loose 50-100 pounds from the car, cast iron is for boat anchors (and making over 1200 rwhp).
pssh... 50 lbs, that can be balanced out with how full the fuel tank is. and besides, aluminum is weak. I never had to sleeve my block and im not worried something will ever come through the side of it if something goes wrong... The lighter weight argument has been debunked time after time here. Try again scooter =)
Theres a reason why your buddy Jeffie dropped an LD9 in Satch vs an Eco. Its a 99 with a BCM, so he didn't have to rewire the whole car and could have gone with either option.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Saturday, November 26, 2011 4:33 AM
Phillip Gruver wrote:
OP: you can use an auto harness but you will have to bridge 2 wires on the harness so the parking switch is off so it will start, secondly you will always see an ebrake light on and lose use of your rear backup lights
Picked up a manual harness so we can stop screwing with this. $120 and a drive to Milwaukee but well worth it.
Hey hey hey I only put the LD9 in because it was the only J motor I haven't played with yet
Also either way I didn't have to rewire because I had tricks, but there is no BCM in my car.
Nothing wrong with either motors tho, and in the end if this LD9 dies then satch gets an eco just cause I can
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Leafy (Club Jeffie FEA man) wrote:What do you mean its not worth swapping? You loose 50-100 pounds from the car, cast iron is for boat anchors (and making over 1200 rwhp).
My cast iron boat anchor has done quite well for me. Stock for stock I see no benefit to change to either. I am probably going to build to stock specs a 2.4 for my 98 because it is making a few noises that I dont care for (make a hell of a lot fewer nasty noises than the Eco in my dads sunfire or my sisters Vue, they traded cars). Chances are that I can rebuild for a hell of a lot less than it would cost me to do a Eco swap.
That being said, if I rebuild my 02 so that it is usable again it will not be getting another LD9, instead it will be getting an older and to me better engine..
there is no 99 mid year change NO 99 had a BCM and i have yet to see a 99 with an EGR
my 99 is an october and it had no EGR that leaves august and september GM wouldn't build a car a certainway for 2 months over something as small as an EGR and they wouldn't rewire a car that drastic in a mid year there are minor changes like 02 ecos have 2 different headlight schmatics but its so minor that its not worth discussing cause everything still functions the same way
JBO since July 30, 2001
ive yet to see a 2000 + with an EGR and no BCM o.O So already your 99 is different from my 2000.
I've also yet to see a 1998 with NO EGR and with a BCM.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Friday, December 02, 2011 9:42 PM
with as many ld9s I've pulled with rods hanging out and only one was boosted I'll stick to my eco....
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