News came over the coax last night of an accident that claimed the lives of two local youths in Gary, Indiana. They were supposedly "drag-racing", which was latter corrected "street-racing" (Again, supposedly...) down a pothole-laden street when they crashed... striking a 7-ft fence to a body-shop, among things.
The car, late-model 4-dr Cavalier, was torn in half in the crash. Pictures of the wreckage & the accident scene confirmed this to me before they announced it. This occurred along one of Gary's industrial-park by-ways, a location said to be rife for street-racing to occur. There has yet to be confirmation by any witnesses of a second car being involved.
All I can think is this: This looks bad for any J-car builder. Even though the vehicle had a fully stock appearance to it, someone not in the know will say something about it being "modified". And if... perhaps... they find the top-speed governor was defeated, all hell will break-loose over it. And then things will get very-bad for us all.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
Kids die street racing, sadly it happens all the time all over the country. How will this make it bad for anyone who builds or has a J? Why would all hell break loose over the governor being disabled? I would also like to know how this will contribute to "all hell breaking loose" and things getting
very bad for all of us?
Sounds to me your just as much of a drama queen as the media who will more than likely blow this out of proportion.
KevinP (Stabby McShankyou) wrote:
and I'm NOT a pedo. everyone knows i've got a wheelchair fetish.
While I feel bad...if you:
1. Drag race on a public street.
2. Don't bother to wear to wear your seatbelt.
Then it's just tough luck, Chuck.
so if any other car is involved in a car crash due to speculated street-racing, will all hell break loose for them too?
says nothin about our community here nor will it hinder us.
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my carDomain updated 8/2/08 Forged B-day!
Alright... Since you don't see it, I'll point it out to you:
Anytime a model of car is clearly identified after being involved in something reckless, especially something that results in an accident... particularly one that involves a certain type of driver (youth)... all the insurance people & authorities start looking at the two in combination in a grim light. And this light don't reflect well upon those who make pursuit of modifying it a preference. How many times have we gotten newbs on this site asking "How do you eliminate the top-end governor..."? Sure, we never tell them because it reflects badly on us... and we know why... but something like this will put us in a spot made of that bad light. And then it's a group improv-act we'll be performing, trying to convince the "heavys" that we're not a bunch of reckless, speed-crazed punks.
Am I over-reacting? Lemme put it another way... The most truly aerodynamic cars produced (In large numbers, no less) in the late-'60 to early-'70s were killed-off just before the next generation (with even better aerodynamics) got final approval for production because insurance companies were freaking-out about how one (in full-race trim, mind you) was able to hit 200mph. Why? Because the regular production ones were the same in body-trim (minus a few racing safety-related add-ons) as the full-race versions. Companies were so worried, threatened to pull claims on owners of tracks that'd allow these wheeled bullets to compete. So, a new rule was added to the regulations: Any car that ran special aerodynamic-enhancing appendages would be required to run 100hp less that the same body-style without them would in competition. Not to mention how conservative mindsets viewed the production versions as having "cop-baiting" looks. It took us about three decades to get lap speeds back up to about what those winged-warriors ran at, and now they're trying the "wing-thing" again. And I'll bet there'll be rules to hoble those cars too.
Hey, Dave... Thanks for catching the seat-belt detail. I forgot about that part. It just adds to a saying of mine: Air-bags do you no-good if you're thrown from the car.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
At least it was near the body shop, hope their insurance works with them.
A teen in a stock Cavalier sedan street-racing means nothing for us as a community.
Nickelin Dimer wrote:Alright... Since you don't see it, I'll point it out to you:
Anytime a model of car is clearly identified after being involved in something reckless, especially something that results in an accident... particularly one that involves a certain type of driver (youth)... all the insurance people & authorities start looking at the two in combination in a grim light. And this light don't reflect well upon those who make pursuit of modifying it a preference. How many times have we gotten newbs on this site asking "How do you eliminate the top-end governor..."? Sure, we never tell them because it reflects badly on us... and we know why... but something like this will put us in a spot made of that bad light. And then it's a group improv-act we'll be performing, trying to convince the "heavys" that we're not a bunch of reckless, speed-crazed punks.
Am I over-reacting? Lemme put it another way... The most truly aerodynamic cars produced (In large numbers, no less) in the late-'60 to early-'70s were killed-off just before the next generation (with even better aerodynamics) got final approval for production because insurance companies were freaking-out about how one (in full-race trim, mind you) was able to hit 200mph. Why? Because the regular production ones were the same in body-trim (minus a few racing safety-related add-ons) as the full-race versions. Companies were so worried, threatened to pull claims on owners of tracks that'd allow these wheeled bullets to compete. So, a new rule was added to the regulations: Any car that ran special aerodynamic-enhancing appendages would be required to run 100hp less that the same body-style without them would in competition. Not to mention how conservative mindsets viewed the production versions as having "cop-baiting" looks. It took us about three decades to get lap speeds back up to about what those winged-warriors ran at, and now they're trying the "wing-thing" again. And I'll bet there'll be rules to hoble those cars too.
Hey, Dave... Thanks for catching the seat-belt detail. I forgot about that part. It just adds to a saying of mine: Air-bags do you no-good if you're thrown from the car.
you gotta be kidding right?
you realise how many morons drive ALOT faster then they should and get in wrecks EVERYDAY?
more then any of us ever hear about.. the car doesn't make matters worse.. its the idiots who drive them.. one example ,here on the org someone made mention of the mom who killed her kid.. and how she had a sunfire.. now does that mean everyone who has a sunfire is off killing kids?.. does that mean the media and others who see that news footage are going to think every person who drives past them in a sunfire has the body of a 5 year old in the trunk?.. thats just dumb logic...
as far as the seat belt goes..
yeah, because wearing a seat belt would have made a difference when having your car ripped in two.....
I hate how in every situation like this you always hear that the douchebag driver who is driving reckless, drunk or wtv is the one that survives (in this case only for a few hours) where the (potentially) innocent passganger or driver of another vehicle always die. It pisses me off to no end that morons like this have no respect or concern for other people and their safety.
Nickelin Dimer wrote:Alright... Since you don't see it, I'll point it out to you:
Anytime a model of car is clearly identified after being involved in something reckless, especially something that results in an accident... particularly one that involves a certain type of driver (youth)... all the insurance people & authorities start looking at the two in combination in a grim light. And this light don't reflect well upon those who make pursuit of modifying it a preference. How many times have we gotten newbs on this site asking "How do you eliminate the top-end governor..."? Sure, we never tell them because it reflects badly on us... and we know why... but something like this will put us in a spot made of that bad light. And then it's a group improv-act we'll be performing, trying to convince the "heavys" that we're not a bunch of reckless, speed-crazed punks.
do you honestly believe that this is the first time a cavalier (or any j body for that matter) has been in a street racing crash? do you know how much my insurance went up every time some dumbass punk crashed a cavalier? none. your little conspiracy theory is pointless.
to hell with "being in a bad light", the reason we don't allow discussion on eliminating the top speed governor is because we (Dave, myself and the other moderators) don't want legal action taken against us if someone gets killed because of it.
also, why would it have to be an "improv act" to prove that the majority of the members here are responsible adults who drive safely? one or two bad apples don't always cause the whole lot to go down in flames. you're getting way too worked up over something that isn't going to affect you at all.
Nickelin Dimer wrote:Am I over-reacting? Lemme put it another way... The most truly aerodynamic cars produced (In large numbers, no less) in the late-'60 to early-'70s were killed-off just before the next generation (with even better aerodynamics) got final approval for production because insurance companies were freaking-out about how one (in full-race trim, mind you) was able to hit 200mph. Why? Because the regular production ones were the same in body-trim (minus a few racing safety-related add-ons) as the full-race versions. Companies were so worried, threatened to pull claims on owners of tracks that'd allow these wheeled bullets to compete. So, a new rule was added to the regulations: Any car that ran special aerodynamic-enhancing appendages would be required to run 100hp less that the same body-style without them would in competition. Not to mention how conservative mindsets viewed the production versions as having "cop-baiting" looks. It took us about three decades to get lap speeds back up to about what those winged-warriors ran at, and now they're trying the "wing-thing" again. And I'll bet there'll be rules to hoble those cars too.
Hey, Dave... Thanks for catching the seat-belt detail. I forgot about that part. It just adds to a saying of mine: Air-bags do you no-good if you're thrown from the car.
this isn't the 60's or 70's. i don't really understand what this rambling on has to do with a teenager crashing in a car that isn't being produced anymore. again, you're letting yourself get too worked up over this. it would probably take a street racing crash once per week in every major city across the nation for the insurance companies to start pulling coverage on anyone under 30 who has a car putting out more than 120 hp. that's worst case scenario stuff, not gonna happen.
relax.
so im still trying to figure out the title? does it happen to be a "black" moment because both males were black?
It was Gary, Indiana.
I chose to meet with Darkstars there once, got there pretty damn early and definitely found entertainment.
Again here we go with joe public thinking its always the modified cars street racing…
Back in 2006 there was an article in the Toronto Sun….they wrote down the percentages of “Street Racing” crashes and what they were driving as well as the drivers gender
I’m going off of memory here so forgive me if I F’d up the numbers anywhere..
52% where driving someone else car (parent, siblings, drunk friends..Etc)
43% Male
9% Female
18% where driving a company car / truck
15% Male
3% Female
19% where racing motorcycles or trucks
15% Male
4% Female
11% is us….
Out of 100% of all STREET RACING accidents in the greater Toronto area…we the street racing modifiers we are……are accountable for all of 11% of the accidents reported in Toronto over a 2 ½ year span….I’m am curious to know what they consider modified as well as the age of these modifiers…?
I’m willing to bet….altezza’s are enough to be considered modified and the age will be
somewhere between 16 & 20..!
The "black" is in reference to the moment being dark... as in grim.
And my beginning of this article was done out of concern for the community that gave me so much help with the one little thing I have in common with it, as reaction to the way people (non-automotive enthusiasts) over-react to these scenes. That's all...
Looking over the situation, one has to wonder: What all the dynamic factors are exactly that caused that J to get so messed-up? How fast were they really going? How was that pothole shaped? And did anyone commenting on my comment actually look at the car in the picture with the posting of the article? You can't tell me that seat-belts wouldn't have made a difference in the way that wreck went.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
I'm still trying to figure out the pont of this thread. The idiots street racing have zero to do with the J community, and will have no affect on anyone in the J community in terms of "all hell breaking loose" or "it being really bad for us"
Sucks they died, but kinda goes with the stupid teritory of street racing. Don't play with fire if you don't want to get burned.
While it's unfortunate that they killed themselves being stupid... at least they didn't take any other innocent people with them. That's what usually happens around my neck of the woods.
As for this meaning anything to other J-body enthusiasts... I highly doubt it. The car in the pictures, at least what's left of it, looks bone stock. There's no talk by anyone of it being modified. I think the OP is being a little too worried about this. There's been tons of other much higher-profile J-body accidents that killed others, and nothing's ever come to haunt any of us.
Kids racing their cars is nothing new. This will change nothing, and it will never stop. Sorry to shine reality on it all...
...j
i just figured the 'bad' part for us mite be that hpt got sued for allowing the kid to remove the limiter thus deleting that option in tuning for us.
Needing 2.3 oil pump stuff? PM me...
z yaaaa wrote:i just figured the 'bad' part for us mite be that hpt got sued for allowing the kid to remove the limiter thus deleting that option in tuning for us.
we don't know if the limiter was even disabled though, probably not.
Okay... Now dig this: When the local news reported this at 10:00P.M.. several hours after it occurred, they made mention of what model of vehicle it was. Usually they don't bother with such details, seeing how when a "ordinary" accident happens they just say what types of vehicles were involved. But when it's resulting from street-racing...
I dunno, they sure seemed to go through allot of bother in their reporting of it. Having a guy live on the scene pointing-out details hours after the fact... What are they trying to do? It couldn't have been that slow of a news-day.
Still... How fast were they going to lose control as result of hitting a pot-hole & cause that much damage to the vehicle? And what was the pot-hole shaped like? I'd like to the hear answers to those questions.
Go beyond the "bolt-on".
this thread is @!#$ stupid. zomg!!! they mentioned the word cavalier on the news! their on to us! seriously its not a big deal. take your car and crash it at 80-90+ mph and see what it looks like when its done. just because he hit a pothole doesnt mean it couldnt cause that damage.
Its a cavalier its not designed to hold together when it smacks a telephone pole at any kind of speed over 70.
The only thing this does is make people of my age group look even stupider. I hate being stereotyped as a reckless driver. Im not. I dont street race. Just because I drive an economy car and I'm 17 I'm instantly and immature reckless bastard. I refuse to be associated with street racing. I spent one ride in a Camaro at 130 and that was enough for me.
Im seriously doubting that car was modified at any extent for a couple of reasons. No one at my age cause afford any kind of modification that would increase their speed exponentially ie turbo etc. Especially HPT since its what $500? Its definitely a 2.2 and I'm assuming a 3 speed because of the 4 door and hubcaps. Not a desireable upgrade car. It was if anything just a couple stupid kids seein how fast their car can get up to. They probably werent racing.
