i have disabled the abs (pulled relay)... abs was kicking on while the tires weren't slipping...
due to the icy conditions and bald-ish rear tires, my back tires are locking up and my front ones are stopping as normal...back end is swinging around and since i just slammed into a nice snowbank i figure its probably worth trying to fix...i was wondering...is there a way to disable ONLY the front abs, leaving the rear to work on its own? to be honest i think NO brakes in the back right now for winter could be a good solution (better than locking up), but i figure trying a rear abs solution might work...thanks..
You pray for a savior, your cries fall on deaf ears -Divine Heresy
how about putting some tires on it? maybe thats too difficult...
1997 RedR - ZedR
obviously, its not what i came on here asking about...thanks for being the first 'predictable smart@ss'
You pray for a savior, your cries fall on deaf ears -Divine Heresy
im confused on why you disabled it in the first place?
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Illt4k3n wrote:i have disabled the abs (pulled relay)... abs was kicking on while the tires weren't slipping...
it was happening last summer..trying to stop at stop signs and the abs coming on and having near misses with traffic and others in front of me...
You pray for a savior, your cries fall on deaf ears -Divine Heresy
ah, i thought I read wasn't.
Maybe u should find out the reason why it was doing that? stuck calipers/cylinders? new tires?
but honestly, there is no "partial" abs solution, its all or nothing.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
It really sounds like the solution is to get new tires.
The ABS comes on when the tires are locking up. That means at least one has locked up and is sliding. If you're certain that none are slipping, then there could be a problem with the sensors but that will generally result in a CEL and the system will disable itself.
Now that you've pulled the plug on it, there's really no control over the brake bias or anything to compensate for any differences in traction between the front and rear.
Nobody should ever disable their ABS system as their reasons are almost never valid.
Wild Weasel wrote:Now that you've pulled the plug on it, there's really no control over the brake bias or anything to compensate for any differences in traction between the front and rear.
And as he said, you'd be surprised at the bias differences (dynamic balancing) the stock abs unit does.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
"trying to stop at stop signs and the abs coming on and having near misses with traffic and others in front of me..." Something is more wrong than your ABS if thats whats happening. If your brakes are having that much of a problem the issue is much bigger than disabling your ABS.
Also it should be noted that a disabled ABS system does not work the same as a car without ABS. There are proportioning valves and bias adjustment that you don't get on a standard braking system.
Re-enable the ABS, bleed the brakes and get some good tires. Your brakes and tires are the 2 most important systems of the car, maintain them above all else.
-Chris
to answer your original question.... no you cant diable the rear. the abs system uses the imput from all 4 wheels to decide if any wheels are slipping. if one or more wheels is spinning "X" percent slower than the other wheels the abs kicks in. if u try to disable the rear, the system will think they are locked up and always be kicking in. same idea for the traction control except it engages under acceleration and screws with the spark instead of the brakes.
Actualy as someone who has disabled the ABS and worked on enough cars with ABS issues, you can dissable the ABS without having any adverse effect on the normal operation of the brakes. The normal bias and prop valves are still a mechanical part of the system that does not care about ABS. The system is designed this way just in case there is a failure in the ABS system. If the ABS pooped out and someone had a crash because the regular brakes didnt function correct you can bet your ass there would be a massive law suit, plus in the GM training i took they made sure to stress the fact that there would be no detrimental affect to the normal brakes if the ABS went out.
The ABS system requires input from all wheel sensors and if there is a fault with one of them and the system detects it as a fault it will shut down. If the system does not detect it as a fault thet the ABS starts doing things it isnt supposed to. Just a few suggested checks would include rear brake cylinders, wheel bearings/hubs, connections, and wiring.
My reason for disabling the ABS on my car is that it irritated me to a point that i couldnt stand it anymore. The brakes functioned exactly like normal even while doing 20 sesions on a local road course.
and as someone who has also disabled the abs before, i guarantee you that you will lock up
MUCHeasier in a panic or hard braking situation when you're not ready for it. turn it back on and fix the real problem.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
whitegoose( RedR-ZedR) wrote:Viper98912 wrote:turn it back on and fix the real problem.
AMEN!
no...too many have had problems with the abs...its easy enough to drive without it....ever try to drive around in a car with abs and just NOT let it kick in? because if you can have enough control to never let the abs kick in to begin with, you don't really need it, as far as emergency situations, argue all you want, but i still think i'm safer letting my own foot do the work instead of a faulty abs system...anyways, i don't need any preaching with the amen's, i've heard enough of that and it puts me to sleep. i shudder at the fact that i quoted that...
and to clarify for those that are thinking 'then why the hell did you want rear abs?' it 'could' have been easier than having to pull apart my brakes and such, but it looks like i'm doing that anyways, ID the drums and check the pads..
as for everyone saying 'taking the abs off ruins your bias' i don't believe you, because when i disabled it, i stopped perfectly fine, just like normal...thanks -mitdr774- for the added info...
IamRascal wrote:"trying to stop at stop signs and the abs coming on and having near misses with traffic and others in front of me..." Something is more wrong than your ABS if thats whats happening. If your brakes are having that much of a problem the issue is much bigger than disabling your ABS.
Your brakes and tires are the 2 most important systems of the car, maintain them above all else.
actually when i pulled the abs the problem stopped, so it can't be anything more than the abs...but i agree about the brakes and tires, i'd definatly rather be able to stop if i had to than look good or go fast, looking good and going fast in a stock-@ss car is far from doable anyways. (doable, but not safely, so, undoable)
sleepy sunfire wrote:to answer your original question.... no you cant diable the rear. the abs system uses the imput from all 4 wheels to decide if any wheels are slipping. if one or more wheels is spinning "X" percent slower than the other wheels the abs kicks in. if u try to disable the rear, the system will think they are locked up and always be kicking in.
mitdr774 wrote:
The ABS system requires input from all wheel sensors and if there is a fault with one of them and the system detects it as a fault it will shut down. If the system does not detect it as a fault thet the ABS starts doing things it isnt supposed to. Just a few suggested checks would include rear brake cylinders, wheel bearings/hubs, connections, and wiring.
thanks for helping me with the original question you two. and thanks everyone else for the 'constructive criticism.'
1. check the rear brakes...seems my brakes all around the car get really sensitive in this weather until i've driven on them for a while
anyone got any ideas about the brakes working like crap in the winter? or getting so grabby?
2. tires could help, but so could better functioning brakes...
3. leave abs off forever, blame it on GM
You pray for a savior, your cries fall on deaf ears -Divine Heresy
I did answer your question in my second post, its all or nothing. And you still don't seem to get it regarding the bias, and "letting your foot do the work". A car without abs stock is completely different than a car with disabled abs. It's unreliable what you're doing. If you don't believe us about the braking bias, then go have someone drive your car, stand outside it, and do consecutive HARD stops and see what starts to mess up first. I guarantee it will never be always the same, on how fast and which ones lock up, and if they lock up evenly instead of individually. I've been there done that.
The problem is not stopping during daily driving (i know, i drove around 2 weeks with abs disabled due to a problem i had), the problem is in a panic situation, REGARDLESS that you say that your ultra fast reactions and thinking will enable you to "let your foot do the work".
I understand that yes, your problem went away when it was disabled. But, that is NOT an excuse to rig it to continue to work that day. Do what you should, and fix the REAL problem (of course, you can't be lazy, you have to LOOK for the problem). Fix it how it should be, so it works as it was intended to. I
guarantee your stock brakes for your stock driving style (this is not a full race-only car) will work better with ABS
enabled than disabled. This has been discussed many times in this forum over the years.
If you're stubborn and hardheaded and take nothing from this post, then fine, but don't ghetto rig the most important part of your car, and hurt someone else besides yourself.
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- Sold my beloved J in April 2010 -
Viper98912 wrote:I did answer your question in my second post, its all or nothing.
ah you did, forgive me...'all or nothing' is so vague, however, and left me with 'why?' but thanks...
Viper98912 wrote: don't ghetto rig the most important part of your car
not 'ghetto rigged,' just disabled...and abs is not the most important part, just an option to an important part..some people like it, some don't...for now, as it's winter, its hard to work on a car troubleshooting abs with fingers that cannot move, so i'm gonna go with 'brakes that don't have an antilock system' for now, until i can do something about it..abs really just takes the 'slam your foot down hard on the pedal' and makes it ok...i don't need to slam it down on the pedal...this isn't a debate about whether or not abs is the best thing, or if my 'ultra fast reactions and thinking' are questionable...i'd just have to say i drive within the conditions of the road and the abilities of myself and the car, non-abs included..i'm not here to discuss such silly overly-debated topics...i just needed some info about my brakes, and i certainly understand your position on abs. thanks.
You pray for a savior, your cries fall on deaf ears -Divine Heresy
You silly 3rd genners and your standard ABS..... My ABS on my 92 is completely disabled, all wiring is removed, and as soon as i pick up the bubble flare tool, I'll be swapping out my ABS MS for a non-ABS one from a 91. That's the best solution.
Ok that was just a bit of fun dont shoot me please
1) New tires are in order, especially being winter. 2) go through and check all 4 sensors, makes sure there's no gunk built up between the teeth of the ring, and the sensors, etc etc. Check all electrical connections, make sure they're good. Then, check over all the mechanical parts, check your rears for worn out springs, shoes, etc, and check the fronts as well.
14.84 @ 92.04mph
Outdated sig pic FTW!
Illt4k3n wrote:i have disabled the abs (pulled relay)... abs was kicking on while the tires weren't slipping...
Just reading through the various viewpoints here, I was already stuck on the "tires weren't slipping" part. ABS shouldn't be causing tire slippage, because all it does is modulates the brakes by reducing and re-applying braking pressure. This process doesn't introduce additional braking pressure -- it only works within the limits of what the driver fed it in the first place. For this reason it doesn't "cause" lock-up, though it does tend to make it much easier for the driver to detect when lock-up happens. Then it does what it's designed to do, and keeps the wheels from *staying* locked up for extended periods.
This is something I've encountered a lot with my car. The rear wheels lock first, without fail. I've blamed everything from weight transfer and suspension setup to brake bias. I've concluded that I just need grabbier front brakes. It could be that my ceramic pads are too soft, and the rears are getting the job done faster.
Bottom line -- If you're losing control, it's because the wheels are locking. This much you already knew. I just don't think you're barking up the right tree with the ABS system.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Thursday, January 17, 2008 1:17 PM
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sorry geeky, i think you misunderstood
...my tires weren't slipping and my abs was kicking on, which was causing the car to not stop at all....this was during summer and the roads were fine, and at a light braking pressure...so i'm positive the tires weren't slipping...but yeah, maybe some grabbier brakes for the front might help
redbird - thanks, i'll be checking them as soon as its a little warmer, say at least 34 degrees instead of below freezing
thanks for all the help guys
You pray for a savior, your cries fall on deaf ears -Divine Heresy
My daily driver did the exact same thing to me one day recently.... I hit the brakes... then ABS kicked in and I slid right thru a stop sign into oncoming traffic. Had nothing to do with my tires, as they're new. It was my rear brakes... one wheel cylinder was seized, the other side had worn through the shoe pad material to the metal plate...
I changed the brakes... $117 in parts and did the work myself... new drums... new shoes... new cylinders... and it stops ON A DIME now.
Took the red 'vert for a spin now that the engine swap is mostly done... ABS isn't working right.... panic stops SUCK... I almost put it into the curb.
Illt4k3n: You're right, I misunderstood. Thanks for being good about it. I couldn't imagine anti-lock without any "lock" to "anti".
I hope you get a solution sorted -- now that I follow what you're going on about, I'd have to agree that it's downright scary.
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John Lenko wrote:My daily driver did the exact same thing to me one day recently.... I hit the brakes... then ABS kicked in and I slid right thru a stop sign into oncoming traffic. Had nothing to do with my tires, as they're new. It was my rear brakes... one wheel cylinder was seized, the other side had worn through the shoe pad material to the metal plate...
I changed the brakes... $117 in parts and did the work myself... new drums... new shoes... new cylinders... and it stops ON A DIME now.
Took the red 'vert for a spin now that the engine swap is mostly done... ABS isn't working right.... panic stops SUCK... I almost put it into the curb.
heres the difference though lenko...
Quote:
Illt4k3n:
due to the icy conditions and bald-ish rear tires
you had tires, he doesnt... thats the first problem i would solve.
i have a bit of this issue every once and a while with my 4 door. i had a rear wheel cylinder fail when i did the brakes last and only replaced one wheel cylinder. the ABS system is a touch pissed off and something keeps turning it off. i havent been able to figure out what it is yet, thinking its a wheel sensor (replaced a wheel hub once with a Grand Am one from the junk yard,might be that one).
anyways, i getsome rear wheel lock sometimes too, generally after the car as been sitting and the brakes have rusted over a touch and are stiff. get it moving and let the brakes warm up and it goes away.
1997 RedR - ZedR
whitegoose( RedR-ZedR) wrote:anyways, i getsome rear wheel lock sometimes too, generally after the car as been sitting and the brakes have rusted over a touch and are stiff. get it moving and let the brakes warm up and it goes away.
yeah same with me, i was hoping that seeing as my frontal abs is messed up and the rear wheels were locking like that the 'rear abs only' thing might help, but obviously thats out of the question...it bothers the s**t outta me....(i was about to start pulling things apart until the temp went to 5 degrees and the wind chill went WAY up...soooo cold....)
are there any options that might help cure that problem? minus the tires of course, due to financialities, if thats even a word...
You pray for a savior, your cries fall on deaf ears -Divine Heresy
cheapest way would be to start checking your lines, make sure none of them are damaged, broken, rusted, or kinked. you could be getting a lack of line pressure somewhere.
1997 RedR - ZedR
I had the same problem with my 98 stang. In dry conditions the abs would kick on and the car wouldnt stop. I believe it was a sensor of some sort on the wheels. The abs light on the dash was on while this was happening.
