so an idea came to me today...

we mod n-body aluminum control arms so camber is un-effected.. right?? well what if you could adjust camber at the mount and take it back to normal???

im wondering if you could run a set of un-modded aluminum CA's with tein ss coil-overs w/ camber mounts and just adjust it back to stock and run it. looking at my ss's there a ton of adjustment there... i dont see any reason why this would not work.

oly bad deal would be wheel/tire sticking out a 1/2 inch more than stock. right? and maybe needing to put j-body ball joints in.

also.. how much camber would even be ideal for us to run? would the 1/2 inch actually be too much to run stock??

thoughts??? ideas??? let me know!



Familiar Taste of Poison.

Camber is measured in degrees, and you pretty much don't want to run more than a degree of camber on a car that is just a street car. Otherwise you'll chew the @!#$ out of tires, ask me how I know...

Dont forget about the axles. You leave them un-modded and use the SS's(if it is possible) to "fix" the camber, you will be pulling the axle a 1/2" further. If it will hold or break, i dunno.

But was is the main purpose behind this? To save money(it doesnt cost that much to get them modded) or to widen the stance up front?



Tinkles

2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown

im doing the n-body brakes/knuckles as well as axels so axels will not be an issue.

and yeah to save money and not have to deal with it. pretty much it. because if i can take the camber back out with the teins... why bother?



Familiar Taste of Poison.

Money really shouldnt be an issue for modding them. John never gave me the exact price shop charged him for the batch of arms we did, but i do know it was under $100.




Tinkles

2003 Cavalier 1SV
Bagged and Blown

I am running an un-modded arm on the front of my n body swap and I am going to do something similar. I am going to change the camber where the strut and knuckle connect though. Front and back alero suspension is bolted in the car but I gotta get my motor and trans swap done first so I can see how everything sits with weight on it.

Also From every bit of research and cross reference I can find j body ball joints and n body ones are the same size. I actually have j ball joints bolted into the knuckles right now. I will put up the part numbers I am using later on when I can dig up the boxes.

RedCavalac wrote:Also From every bit of research and cross reference I can find j body ball joints and n body ones are the same size. I actually have j ball joints bolted into the knuckles right now. I will put up the part numbers I am using later on when I can dig up the boxes.

You have probably looked at 98 or earlier ball joints for the N-body. Those vehicles have basically the same suspension as the J-body. In 99, when they changed to IRS, aluminum spindles, and a 5x115 bolt pattern, the ball joints changed. They have a slightly larger cone on them. If you use the J-body ones, they will sit too far into the bottom of the spindle.

As for the axles, by using the unmodded control arms and a camber plate to bring out the top of the spindle, you are giving the axles too much play. This could cause a failure uder hard cornering and/or suspension travel. When your geometry is properly aligned, there should be very minimal play in the axles when the control arms are level with the ground.

lol i said i was using n-body axles: need to in order to use n-body knuckles and brakes etc... best part? i can just order a set of stock 99 n-body ones for a 5spd and voila. bolt in and done. im trying to make the swap as bolt in as possible. only modding part will be having to re-drill n-body rotors for 5 by 100 and maybe a small hub clearance as well. im also hoping to be able to bolt stock 16's on it....

tinkles i get what u mean but if i can save some $$$ i am going to. plus i just love the idea of a bolt in unit without monkeying with it.

i already got a set of you're modded CA's for my white car, i'll be using em as well. this other project is for my black car. completely different setup.



Familiar Taste of Poison.

thats what i'm doin i wont be modding my control arms there goin in longer i'm gonna use that 1/2 inch to help me run a wider tire in combo with a rim with a different offset what that is at this poin ti have no clue as snow hasn't cam yet so the car is still intact



JBO since July 30, 2001

z yaaaa wrote:lol i said i was using n-body axles: need to in order to use n-body knuckles and brakes etc... best part? i can just order a set of stock 99 n-body ones for a 5spd and voila. bolt in and done. im trying to make the swap as bolt in as possible. only modding part will be having to re-drill n-body rotors for 5 by 100 and maybe a small hub clearance as well. im also hoping to be able to bolt stock 16's on it....

tinkles i get what u mean but if i can save some $$$ i am going to. plus i just love the idea of a bolt in unit without monkeying with it.

i already got a set of you're modded CA's for my white car, i'll be using em as well. this other project is for my black car. completely different setup.

The N-body axles aren't longer. Some guys have used entire N-body axles on their NFW swap, and they were the same length as the J-body.

As for redrilling and fitting your factory 16's, there are two concerns:

1) the hub has holes in it similar to ours have for access to the mounting bolts, even though it bolts from the back.

2) the hub bore is considerably larger. The J-body hub bore is 57.1mm, and the N-body is 70.3mm. You would have to be taking more than a 1/4" of material off around the bore in your rims. The only I see that you could get your stock 16's on would be to use hub adapters, which would push your track out even further than the use of the unmodded control arms.

NOTa2_4 wrote:i'm gonna use that 1/2 inch to help me run a wider tire in combo with a rim with a different offset

I'm not sure how much this will help you, since you're still going to be dealing with strut clearance.

well if they ain't longer than it wont be ah issue using them because they work fine on n-bodies and the track is 1/2 wider.

if i cant use stockers oh well. lathing them wouldn't be an issue though....



Familiar Taste of Poison.

if i go out 1/2" on each side plus play with my offest i may be able to achieve this

some struts are notch at the spindle end and the camber may be corrected there if it can my strut will stay in its stock place but the wheel moves a 1/2 inch outward



JBO since July 30, 2001

z yaaaa wrote:well if they ain't longer than it wont be ah issue using them because they work fine on n-bodies and the track is 1/2 wider.

Possibly true. I'm not sure what the deal is with that, to be honest. However, what I do know is that there is someone on here who used axles that are slightly short, and they bound up on them more than once, causing a breakage. For this reason, I wouldn't be trying the wider track width unless you are doing something like Lenko did, using the 4T65e tranny and C-body axles (longer), or having custom axles made (which would obviously defeat your reason for doing it).

in the NWF setup i postd the shaft lengths accordine to the specs i got from the parts catelog




JBO since July 30, 2001

just wanting to let you guys know, this idea of mine works and works well.

paul tjepkes is running it as we speak on his car. unmodded 99 n-body control arms and my tein ss's. camber was taken back out with the use of the tein camber plates.

axles are fine. travel is fine. no issues (so far, knock on wood)





I must confess... I feel like a monster!

is it on stock j body spindles or the N body spindles



JBO since July 30, 2001

stock j-body. stock brakes, stock wheel bearings. stock axles.



I must confess... I feel like a monster!

has he taken it to get aligned? pretty cool though. the camber plates maxed out at positive to fix it? or is there still some play in both directions?

Thats interesting. So he pushed his knuckles and hubs out 1/2" without changing any of those, and this didn't cause any issues? I still wouldn't be trusting that, but if it's working for him, great.

i guess i shouldnt have jumped the gun because no, he has not yet had it aligned at a shop, however im pretty sure he did use some make shift way to get it pretty close.

and i personally have driven this car on this setup, ran through the gears WITH SLICKS ON, dropping the hammer at 7500 every time, no issues.

and believe it or not the wheels dont look crazy either, it looks stock. if you didnt know it was pushed out 1/2 on each side you'd never notice it. even the 8" wide slicks do not look ridiculous on there.

as far as adjustment goes i cannot remember if the camber plates are maxed out or not. i think so though.


*edit*

couple more things id like to add. he is running the N-BODY ball joint and just screwed the tie rods out 1/2 inch on each side and it worked perfectly. the ball joint goes right into the j-body knuckle no problem.

ill make paul go snap some pictures of it this week. we didnt have time this week because we were trying to get it done and ready for the dyno on friday.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edited Sunday, November 22, 2009 6:34 AM


I must confess... I feel like a monster!

Listening just cause I can.


Misnblu.com
Newbie member since 1999
Thank you Dave and JBO!

Misnblu wrote:Listening just cause I can.

JGM T-SHIRTS!!!!

In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Alexis: Dustin, you're ghey, lol. I am better. I have tits, and tits rule all.

lol there is really not much left to do/say.

my theory worked and worked well.

i guess pauls lazy ass could post pics. ill get on him about it...



Stand in the corner and SCREAM with me!!!!

Thats all Im waitign on at this point



JGM T-SHIRTS!!!!

In Loving Memory of Phil Martin December 14 2005
Alexis: Dustin, you're ghey, lol. I am better. I have tits, and tits rule all.

z yaaaa wrote:

i guess pauls lazy ass could post pics. ill get on him about it...

This plus an alignment shop readout.




219whp - I <3 whine